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Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Yet another X vs...  
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didiee
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: CT, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Apr 10, 2013, 3:29pm
Subject: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

Coffee has been a slow journey.  
Finally got to espresso, and I'm going skip Single boiler machine.
In my price range, the only dual boiler is Breville... not a fan of where it is constructed.
Brings me to the above three.

6)  What is your budget for a new machine?  Does that also include a grinder?  If not, what is your budget for a grinder?  
I was thinking at most 1 grand total.  But after compared through all the grinders, we have decided on a Vario (or Vario-w), so now it has jumped to 1500ish.  My other half still at the auto drip stage moving towards french press.  So i think Vario would be nice since we'll be sharing a grinder.... maybe later on share a espresso machine.

1)  What kind of drinks do you like/want to make?  (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's capabilities.)
Mostly milky drink.  I personally drink espresso once in a while, but my significant other refuse to drink it straight up

2)  How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself needing to make at any one time? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's ability to work continuously.)
Not a whole lot.  2?

3)  How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself making in any given week?  (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's durability.)
15 to 25

4)  Can you plumb a machine directly into the water supply, or do you want/need a pour over machine with its own reservoir?
Probably not.  Also I am not at a permanent place yet, so portable is probably better

5)  Do you have a 20-amp circuit available, or only a (standard) 15-amp circuit?
No sure, but if necessary I can find the panel and figure it out

Thanks.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,675
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Apr 10, 2013, 9:00pm
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

Hi,
Most likely you have a 15amp circuit.
My drink use is only slightly more than yours. I have a HX machine and would not think of anything else for my main machine. At some point it comes down to money and what we want.
Any of those would do what you are asking, which one do you really want?

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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didiee
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: CT, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Apr 11, 2013, 6:00am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

Thanks CalBlackSmith.  So far i'm leaning towards BZ07 (full automatic) with PID, so it will be easy enough for my other half if she were to learn how to pull a few shots.  Years from now, I imaging, but I can hope.  I want something simpler so she may get some sense of accomplishment, rather than some cheaper and difficult machine to learn from.  I understand fully how the learning process is backwards, cheaper machine = harder to learn machine.... such as life.

I know Cuadra has a E61, (which I don't really want to get into any debates), CC1 is just much cheaper within my price range.
  1.  Ease of use
  2.  Consistency
  3.  Price
    Would probably be my top three.
    If I can, I would like be in the ballpark of 1000 to 1500 with grinder (Vario or Vario-w).

It's thursday going to troll Baratza's site....  fun...
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pfn
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 64
Location: Santa Clara, CA, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra II
Grinder: KA Proline w/ Mazzer Mini...
Posted Thu Apr 11, 2013, 7:04am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

didiee Said:

Thanks CalBlackSmith.  So far i'm leaning towards BZ07 (full automatic) with PID, so it will be easy enough for my other half if she were to learn how to pull a few shots.  Years from now, I imaging, but I can hope.  I want something simpler so she may get some sense of accomplishment, rather than some cheaper and difficult machine to learn from.  I understand fully how the learning process is backwards, cheaper machine = harder to learn machine.... such as life.

I know Cuadra has a E61, (which I don't really want to get into any debates), CC1 is just much cheaper within my price range.
Ease of use
Consistency
Price
Would probably be my top three.
If I can, I would like be in the ballpark of 1000 to 1500 with grinder (Vario or Vario-w).

It's thursday going to troll Baratza's site....  fun...

Posted April 11, 2013 link

PID on an HX is mostly useless. I would save the $300 and go with the semi-auto BZ07 w/o PID if you were leaning for that, why bother with the volumetric buttons--they do not aid in quality; pull until you get the quantity/quality you want, then turn off.

If your budget is $1500 w/ grinder, I'd go with the Cuadra+Vario package on 1st-line, altogether, your total would be $1450-1550 for either the Vario or Vario-W. The BZ07 would put you $300 over-budget. To aid in consistency, I would consider a $100 E61 thermometer, if you felt that was required later (for the Cuadra).

Ease of use, Vario-W and any of the machines mentioned probably have about the same ease of use. Grind, flush, dose, tamp, pull, cleanup. If one were to be considered easiest, maybe the CC1.
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steamer
Senior Member
steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 897
Location: socal
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-B Baratza...
Vac Pot: Krubs Moka Brew, vacPot
Drip: TechV, and many more
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Thu Apr 11, 2013, 7:46am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

There is an Oscar on craigs list out of Phoenix for $300, I was going after it, but I cant do anything till next month, I have no details other than he still has it.
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dyno
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 70
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Salvatore The Club/Oscar
Grinder: K6 Pro/Super Mini E
Posted Thu Apr 11, 2013, 8:27am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

steamer Said:

There is an Oscar on craigs list out of Phoenix for $300, I was going after it, but I cant do anything till next month, I have no details other than he still has it.

Posted April 11, 2013 link

I bought a silver one on Ebay that wasn't working properly for alittle more than that.  A new Sirai pressurestat and she was good to go after some cleaning and a descale.  Mine was somewhat corroded looking inside however with some rust on the frame and the boiler insulation worse for age.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,015
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Apr 11, 2013, 8:50am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

If it works at all 300 is a good price for Oscar.  He is a good machine even with some work.  At that price you can put some money in him and sell it later if you wanted and get most if not all your money out of it.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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didiee
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: CT, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Apr 11, 2013, 10:25am
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

steamer Said:

There is an Oscar on craigs list out of Phoenix for $300, I was going after it, but I cant do anything till next month, I have no details other than he still has it.

Posted April 11, 2013 link

eh?  This thread jumped the shark?

I am not welling to do anything DIY at this time.  I'd rather pay a little more for peace of mind and ease of use..

Thanks.
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SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Sun Apr 14, 2013, 5:34pm
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

If money is a more important issue than the actual coffee, then you have a couple of options.
1) Buy somethng used. It will be worth most of your cost when you decide to sell it.
2) Don't buy an espresso machine. They cost money. They don't make profit unless you're very skilled and/or have all the right connections and a good location. They depreciate quickly unless you're constantly maintaining and improving them.

I suggest go with something used if you are sure you want to buy something. If it's not perfect for you it won't have depreciated much when you replace it.
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didiee
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: CT, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Apr 14, 2013, 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Yet another X vs Y vs Z (Cuadra II vs Bezzera BZ 07 vs Crossland CC1)
 

SStones Said:

If money is a more important issue than the actual coffee, then you have a couple of options.
1) Buy somethng used. It will be worth most of your cost when you decide to sell it.
2) Don't buy an espresso machine. They cost money. They don't make profit unless you're very skilled and/or have all the right connections and a good location. They depreciate quickly unless you're constantly maintaining and improving them.

I suggest go with something used if you are sure you want to buy something. If it's not perfect for you it won't have depreciated much when you replace it.

Posted April 14, 2013 link

Thanks!  Not sure I agree with your assessment. Money is not a big factor in my decision.   I've already shilled out for a vario I don't think I want a totally cheap machine, but a good price wouldn't hurt.
I don't particularly want a used machine because if it turned out to be a dud I will have no one to turn to.

That breville dual is sounding better and better....  Just need a way to get amazon.ca to ship it over....
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