Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Is a new category needed?
Rancilio Silvia - How to
Step by step guide for easy brewing and steaming with the Rancilio Silvia
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Is a new...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 2 first page previous page
Author Messages
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,675
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Apr 11, 2013, 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Is a new category needed?
 

BTW, my use is about like you made reference to. About 20 drinks a week, one person at a time unless we have company as my wife hates coffee. I also have a PID equipped Sylvia that I bought for work then last year I took it on vacation and it has not even been plugged in since. It is a machine of last resort for me, when all else has failed, including my two group commercial machine that I only use once a year for 1 weekend. I have NO interest in going back to SBDU or a SBDU/thermoblock

I know the difference and my values and preferences are quite likely different than yours as my perspective of these machines is different also, I fail to see value in making another class of starter machines.
Sorry if this upsets you, that was never an intent of mine, we just see things differently.


This truly is a case of YMMV:-)

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Winnisk
Senior Member


Joined: 4 Jan 2013
Posts: 20
Location: Moonstone Ontario
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvano
Grinder: Vario
Posted Thu Apr 11, 2013, 9:34pm
Subject: Re: Is a new category needed?
 

qualin Said:

I believe these machines are called SBDH machines.. Single Boiler Dual Heater .. technically, they kinda are.

Seems like they kind of bridge the gap between SBDU and HX machines, somewhere in the $700-$1000 range?

Posted April 11, 2013 link


I like the SBDH label. While I would agree that SBDU machines like the Silvia and SBDH machines like the Silvano could both be classified as entry level home use machines, operationally there are significant differences. SBDH machines, from a user standpoint, are like a poor mans dual boiler, while SBDU machines require temperature surfing.

To me, this is like saying that HX and Dual Boilers can both fall into the prosumer category, but a distinction is made in terms of how you operate them and how they are getting the job done under the hood.

Moreover, with a SBDH machine, the fact that you can steam and brew at the same time (or one right after the other with the CC1) creates functional and performance differences, allowing you to make milk drinks in much quicker succession than a SBDU machine. In addition, I think it can be argued that working with a dedicated boiler, since it is in no way dual use, makes it easier to manage temperature than SBDU machines, leading to greater ease in consistently pulling good shots. Recent espresso performance taste tests between a Silvano and a Strada, where the Silvano did exceptionally well, are impressive.

http://www.home-barista.com/quick-mill-silvano-review.html

So maybe the distinction between SBDU and SBDH machines for the entry level, beginning user is just as important as the HX / Dual Boiler one is for the prosumer crowd. Respectfully, I can see why an experienced, more advanced user might not care or think it necessary because they would prefer to avoid both if possible, but to a home user like me, it was important to think of SBDU and SBDH machines as being different.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,675
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Apr 12, 2013, 4:03am
Subject: Re: Is a new category needed?
 

As I said, I can see the issue from both sides and I see so much more that they have in common than they are different.

HX / DB is a lot like diesel/gasoline the parts have some things in common but much more that are different while this discussion is more of a 3 cylinder/4 cylinder gas engine.

I truly understand how this may be an important distinction for someone looking at starter class machines but my personal feeling is that this is tempest in a tea pot, drawing distinction where there isn't much of one.

With that, I'm bowing out of this thread, this could go on for a long time with no resolution, have a great day.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
fredk01
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 136
Location: Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Saeco Aroma
Grinder: OE Pharos
Posted Fri Apr 12, 2013, 3:27pm
Subject: Re: Is a new category needed?
 

calblacksmith Said:

...

I truly understand how this may be an important distinction for someone looking at starter class machines but my personal feeling is that this is tempest in a tea pot, drawing distinction where there isn't much of one...

Posted April 12, 2013 link

That is exactly the point!  The people who will get the most from machine categories are those who are new to espresso.  It is people like me who are new to espresso who need the value proposition of various machines clearly spelled out so that we can make the best decision on what machine to pick up based on budget and various other factors.

Folks like you who have been making espresso for a while know enough about the various machine types out there to make an well informed decision on a machine without all the category stuff.

Your tempest is my muse. :-)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 2 of 2 first page previous page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Is a new...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Support Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids is a non profit charity working with farming communities around the world. Donate today!
www.coffeekids.org
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.364841938019)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+