chiror0b Senior Member Joined: 17 Mar 2013 Posts: 10 Location: Auburn Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: mypressi Grinder: hario mini mill
Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 8:02pm Subject: Re: hot water tap HX machine question
Alrighty, after going back and attempting a video, I just turned on the tap and let it go even though it was steaming. I guess it is working right after all. I would totally agree with the sputtering mess statement, as the water in the measuring cup did continue to rise, as did the burns on my hand from being in the vicinity, and the wall, and the counter, the drip tray...
I shut it off after 8oz, the boiler bottomed out as the pump was filling it up again, but the 8oz in the cup was steamy hot.
It took 50 seconds for the boiler gauge to go from 0 to 1bar and the heater light to shut off.
Cuti_95 Senior Member Joined: 18 Jul 2013 Posts: 1 Location: New Zealand Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Jul 18, 2013, 10:51pm Subject: Re: hot water tap HX machine question
I am newbie in this coffee business and recently experienced similar problem and i probably fixed it. I got a Brasillia one group commercial machine and it run well until last week when I have to re-plumbed the machine. what happened afterward was exactly the same as you described, I got only a little water from hot water tap then only steam came out.
my diagnoses were: 1) maybe the main valve did not open in full, but it was not. 2) there might be air in the water supply hose as I reconnected . Then what I did was: turn on the machine when it is still cold by turning the main knob clockwise one click (the standby position where pump was ready to fill water), then rinse the water from the group, and let it run for 1 minute. then turn the knob for boiler to start. and that was this. when the machine reached the needed pressure, hot water came out just like it did before.
so my conclusion was that because there was air in the water supply so the pump might not work properly and therefore therewas enough water in the boiler.. I might be wrong but I got the problem solved.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 8,204 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32 Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Msl. Com. brewers Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Jul 19, 2013, 6:14am Subject: Re: hot water tap HX machine question
The bigger the boiler, the less cold water entering the boiler will cool the machine down and the more hot water you can draw from the system before it becomes too cold for your intended use. However, it will take longer to warm the water back up to above boiling temp too so there are trade offs
The water in the boiler is at about 240 F. Remember that water boils at 212 F at sea level. The first water extracted from the boiler WILL turn to steam, it MUST, it is above the boiling point. As the makeup water enters the boiler, it will cool the water in the boiler below boiling temp, now you have hot water that is NOT flashing to steam. It has nothing to do with air in the inlet water line, an air bubble will move through the system in seconds as when plumbed in, your internal water pressure in the machine is the same as the feed water you are supplying.
Think of a garden hose. Even when there is no water at all in it and it is 50 feet long, how long does it take to fill with water and flush all the air from it? A few seconds? How much less of an affect will a bubble have on the level of the water in the boiler than an empty hose?
Unless the espresso machine is designed with a mixing valve in the water wand system to regulate the water temp (I don't know of any that are designed this way but I suppose it is possible) the first water from the boiler MUST turn to steam.
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
jonr Senior Member Joined: 25 Jun 2013 Posts: 324 Location: Americas Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Jul 19, 2013, 6:38am Subject: Re: hot water tap HX machine question
I agree that 120v espresso machines are not going to be able to produce heat as fast as you would likely want to draw from a hot water outlet. So you are limited to either short draws or slow draws. I too save water by combining cup warming with the HX flush.
Posted Fri Jul 19, 2013, 7:02am Subject: Re: hot water tap HX machine question
For those who do not regularly use the hot water tap on HX or DB machines is that you should occasionally "drain" the boiler (or the steam/hot water boiler for a DB) by running as much hot water out as is reasonably possibly. As water is turned to steam the mineral content of the water is left behind which can cause scale. By forcing a refill of the boiler, the incoming water has a lower mineral content than the ater already in there and it will "leach" off some of the minerals in the boiler. This does not mean that you won't get scale in the boiler nor does it preclude being aware of the mineral content of the water nor eliminate occasional descaling as necessary' but it helps.
Thanks, Wayne. I think another point, indirectly related, is that a number of folks use the hot water tap quite infrequently, and if equipped with O-rings, these taps get quite stiff. It is a good idea to "exercise" them occasionally to keep the lube distributed and the seals fresh(er), or at least to extend their life. Soem valves, like the ones on many E-61 machines (like those on teh VBMs) are easy to clean and lube from the outside of teh machine. Others not so much.
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