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Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
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Italo2275
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Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Apr 2, 2013, 5:02pm
Subject: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

Hi Guys,
So I am still trying to figure this coffee stuff out and find out if I am the issue, my machine or my grinder.
Currently my machine is running on 20 amps and it is using the water tank.
I have used several types of coffee from fresh to ones that are vacume sealed. I found that with fresh coffee I cannot get a thick cream when pulling 2 one OZ shots.
Having said all that I was looking at my temp and I had set it to 201 but as I am puppling the shot it kept going down to 195,, is this normal?
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CSME9
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CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 291
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Mitica Top, Spaz...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Tue Apr 2, 2013, 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

Italo, I think there was a recent posting by DaveUK that discussed using different PID settings, he provided those and a couple Duetto owners tried them and the machines Temp was more stable.
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qualin
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qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 665
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 1:08am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

Stupid question...

How long are you letting the machine warm up for before you are pulling shots?

It needs at least 30 minutes, preferably 45 minutes, to stabilize before you can think of pulling shots, otherwise the temperature will fall like you are describing.
Only because the coffee boiler doesn't have enough thermal inertia to stay stable. Try doing that first before adjusting PID settings.

BTW, What do you mean by "Fresh Coffee"? As opposed to?

How long are your shots taking when you are pulling them?

A saw a video of you pulling a shot in a previous thread you had posted and everything looked fine to me. Lots of crema isn't always an indication of a good shot.
When I pull my shots with absolutely fresh coffee which is less than 10 days from roast date, I typically get roughly about a 1/2 to an inch of crema in the shotglasses.
You will get less crema as the beans age, this is normal.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,949
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Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
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Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 3:02am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

Bud, that isn't stupid and all it is critical that the whole machine warms to operating temp' it is always important to get all the info when trying to troubleshoot a problem.

 
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Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Italo2275
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Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 4:23am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

Not a stupid question at all.
But yes I warm up the machine at leat 30 min 45 min max. What I mean when I say fresh as oppose to not, So fresh coffee I go to the roaster and it has a roast date of say 5 to 7 days. Not fresh is a vacume seales one like Lavazza Super Crema which may have been sealed for a month or 2.My shots I try and time them between 25 and 30 sec. I know crema is not everything but with my old r58 I use to get nice thick crema that coated the side of the cup and pulled some nice shots with it.
I am trying different things but none of them are working.
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,462
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 5:01am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

It's so difficult to diagnose problems like this.

  1. The temperature drop won't affects the shot, because the group will be buffering that easily and that's what you are seeing in the boiler, the water for the shot has already long gone.

  2. Crema isn't the sole indicator of a good shot, for example, higher temperatures can produce thicker darker crema, but not necessarily a better shot, as sometimes can changes in pressure. It's quite likely the R58 shots were hotter than you think. It uses slightly larger bore thermosyphon tubes and so the offset is larger.

  3. The coffee may not be exactly the same as you were using, in terms of roast quality. A roaster may make changes to blends and each new batch can differ. If it's not the roasting, beans themselves can vary from crop to crop. I once had a fantastic Fazenda Rainha Yellow Bourbon one year, which has never been as good in subsequent crops.

What I do know is that the Duetto makes a shot up there with the best of them and far better than the (pre-production) R58 I tested. Remember the most important thing....."taste with the eyes closed".
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Italo2275
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Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 5:11am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

HI Dave,
Honestly I am at the point where I would pay someone to come and see what I am doing wrong or if my equipment is not good.
If I make a video on how I pull a shot from the grinding phase to the end would that help? How can I test that the grinder is not the issue or the machine itself,
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Jmanespresso
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Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 7:12am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

Italo2275 Said:

If I make a video on how I pull a shot from the grinding phase to the end would that help? How can I test that the grinder is not the issue or the machine itself,

Posted April 3, 2013 link

It would incredibly helpful.  IF we can provide information to help you, which we probably can, seeing what you're doing and the results your getting is the only way.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,227
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 8:27am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

also, please tell us what grinder you have.

In addition to the other responses, there was a report from germantownRob on the PID display fluctuations being very broad when he first got his D3, and narrowing to a tight control over time as he used the machine more and more.  How long have you had yours?  Perhaps you should read through the Duetto owner's thread?  There might be other helpful posts.

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Apr 3, 2013, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 temperature drop
 

emradguy Said:

also, please tell us what grinder you have.

In addition to the other responses, there was a report from germantownRob on the PID display fluctuations being very broad when he first got his D3, and narrowing to a tight control over time as he used the machine more and more.  How long have you had yours?  Perhaps you should read through the Duetto owner's thread?  There might be other helpful posts.

Posted April 3, 2013 link

When my machine was new and idle it fluctuated 4-5f around the set point, this did improve. I also tried some different PID setting for 15amp mode but have returned to stock settings again, it really is a decent all around setting. In 20 amp you may want to check out some of the other PID settings.

The only time I saw drops like that after pulling a shot was when using a different PID setting in 15amp mode and the steam boiler off.  I liked this PID setting when both boilers where on but when the steam boiler was off I had to wait on consecutive shots for the brew boiler to rebound, I don't like waiting. So are these drops with your steam boiler off?

Edit, I am just assuming your PID settings are the same as mine but that may not be the case, post yours.
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