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Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,305
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 5:34am
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

As you've probably learned by now (or at least should have), stainless steel isn't always "stainless" or rust proof.  Steel is an alloy and there are many different grades of steel, which are typically designated with a number.  This is because the component metals that are combined to create the alloy can be used in different proportions.  If you go to the BBQ forums, you'll find similar discussions about the quality of the steels used by different manufacturers.  Wayne's (calblacksmith) profession is just like his call name looks.  He's a blacksmith.  Well versed in and much, much more knowledgeable than probably anybody else on this website regarding metals, rusting  and care of the problem.

I am in no way, whatsoever related to him, or to any company in the coffee world (other than participation in these forums and my being a consumer of coffee related goods).  I have not ever had any issues with the two different Silvia machines I had.  I had two because we had two "homes".   We have one home, and I have gifted one Silvia and sold the other due to upgrading and downsizing.  both are still running well.  I never saw any rust at all on either of them, after owning each for upwards of 5 years.

To remove and subsequently prvent rust, you need to scrub it with a brush or grind it off until it is completely gone, and then seal it off from the environment using a high quality sealant, and possibly some high quality "rust proof" paint.

Good luck!

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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earlds
Senior Member
earlds
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Location: Mobile
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 6:15am
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

Now it could be that the older Silvias were better made than they are now ,but Ive been using mine every day for nine years and mine has only developed a tiny amount of rust at the drip tray area so far ,not to the point that it needs attention .I have to wonder if this is because I make it a point to keep the area under the drip tray dry..And by the way ,Wayne ,Silvia does not have a Y...LOL Sorry but Ive been waiting for years to see you stop putting a Y in Silvia.Although at this point it has kinda become one of your trade marks...I LOL again.....Metal wont rust if you if you keep it dry..
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shanapunim
Senior Member


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 7
Location: McLean, VA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 6:31am
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

Okay emradguy, Wayne, (calblacksmith) my be a blacksmith which tells me that he should know a bit about metals.  I won't argue this.

So, please allow me to get a bit deeper in the problem solving aspect of Silvia's flawed engineering design department and ask the following question:

If (and I don't profess to know that you assertion is accurate - that stainless steel will add about $150 to the price of the machine) stainless is too expensive a solution to corrosion, I'd like to recommend aluminum.  Since they already seem to have aluminum integrated into their design, why not eliminate rustable material in favor of aluminum which is not expensive?
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,305
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 7:25am
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

well, in my opinion, stainless steel, even the cheap stuff, just looks better, so I'd definitely rather see the outer shell in stainless than aluminum.  also, aluminum is much softer, and therefore, more prone to scratches.  Oh, and I wasn't the one who said anything about adding x dollars to the cost of the machine...but certainly commercial grade stainless costs more, which is why many companies substitute the crappy grades.  There's a lot of good info on the web about stainless steel grades and properties.

However, even if one were to take your suggestion and make a substantial engineering design change to the Silvia...it ain't gonna be Rancilio.  They've got a long history of making little to no improvement to their gear, even when competitors begin to sell as good or better stuff for less money.  Silvia, and Rocky are two well-known consumer grade products that prove this.  Neither one has had any substantial improvement over the 10 years I've been what I would consider an espresso enthusiast - except for the steam wand upgrade on the Silvia.  How cheap would it be for Rancilio to add PID to every Silvia in manufacturing?  How much would that improve "her" performance?

If I were in your shoes, I'd scrub the heck out of that rust till the metal looked shiny, then prime it with a good sealant and then apply some heavy duty rust proof paint, maybe even a couple of coats.  Then I'd check to make sure the area was good and dry when I remove the drip tray to dump it - every time.  As long as you don't wait til you can barely move the tray before it spills over, you shouldn't have water under it.  I know this isn't the approach you want, but I think it's really your only option short of getting a different machine.

So, again, I wish you good luck!

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,090
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 8:01am
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

emradguy Said:

well, in my opinion, stainless steel, even the cheap stuff, just looks better, so I'd definitely rather see the outer shell in stainless than aluminum.  also, aluminum is much softer, and therefore, more prone to scratches.  Oh, and I wasn't the one who said anything about adding x dollars to the cost of the machine...but certainly commercial grade stainless costs more, which is why many companies substitute the crappy grades.  There's a lot of good info on the web about stainless steel grades and properties.

However, even if one were to take your suggestion and make a substantial engineering design change to the Silvia...it ain't gonna be Rancilio.  They've got a long history of making little to no improvement to their gear, even when competitors begin to sell as good or better stuff for less money.  Silvia, and Rocky are two well-known consumer grade products that prove this.  Neither one has had any substantial improvement over the 10 years I've been what I would consider an espresso enthusiast - except for the steam wand upgrade on the Silvia.  How cheap would it be for Rancilio to add PID to every Silvia in manufacturing?  How much would that improve "her" performance?

If I were in your shoes, I'd scrub the heck out of that rust till the metal looked shiny, then prime it with a good sealant and then apply some heavy duty rust proof paint, maybe even a couple of coats.  Then I'd check to make sure the area was good and dry when I remove the drip tray to dump it - every time.  As long as you don't wait til you can barely move the tray before it spills over, you shouldn't have water under it.  I know this isn't the approach you want, but I think it's really your only option short of getting a different machine.

So, again, I wish you good luck!

.

Posted April 25, 2013 link

+1  Since I sanded and rust proofed my under drip tray area I went over the entire bottom and haven't had an issue since.  I also have been lazy cleaning the drip tray so I am sure it's wet down there. Still no corrosion.  IMO the bottom line even though the body of the Silvia is prone to rust it's still a good deal if you take a look at the cost of the machine's parts all together.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,305
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 9:57am
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

Burner0000 Said:

+1  Since I sanded and rust proofed my under drip tray area I went over the entire bottom and haven't had an issue since.  I also have been lazy cleaning the drip tray so I am sure it's wet down there. Still no corrosion.  IMO the bottom line even though the body of the Silvia is prone to rust it's still a good deal if you take a look at the cost of the machine's parts all together.

Posted April 25, 2013 link

You posted a photo of your repair in another thread didn't you?

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,090
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:34am
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

emradguy Said:

You posted a photo of your repair in another thread didn't you?

Posted April 25, 2013 link

Yup! Here it is

Click
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skydragondave
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 168
Location: Ontario, Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Commercial Only
Grinder: Commercial Only
Roaster: Has Garanti HG5
Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

Hi all,
Interesting thread. I would agree that deep rust scaling of a machine frame after 10 months of light use and all the care and concern that can be reasonably expected of the average end user, is indeed a product quality problem.
It's possible the manufacturer could be using a cheaper grade of steel on the V3 with less virgin content to construct the frame, and may be using an inferior coating on said frame to cut manufacturing costs.
I'm also a blacksmith, espresso machine technician, as well as a licensed heavy equipment technician, licensed powered lift truck technician, and licensed industrial truck LPG fuel system technician with over 15 years experience.
However, I do not agree that going with stainless or aluminum is a realistic solution to this problem as it would simply add too much to the manufacturing costs. Some more money will have to be spent on a better grade of steel, and a better finishing process, like powdercoating polyurethane or epoxy finishes. Cost savings will have to be found elsewhere or a different design will have to be considered.
With great respect, refinishing the frame of a machine, while easy for those with the means and knowledge to do so, is beyond the scope of the average end user. Careful and organised documentation of corrosion damage with photos, description of operating conditions, maintenance performed, and machine serial number, could be trended over a serial number break and possibly result in a product recall and product improvement.
Rancilio is one of the blue-chip manufacturers of espresso machines and is just as concerned with striking that balance between quality and value as any other. If feeback is presented to them in the proper way, this could certainly lead to a favourable resolution.

Rancilio contact info is here:
Rancilio North America Inc.
www.rancilio-na.com
8102 S.Lemont Rd. #1200
Woodridge, IL 60517
USA
Tel +1 630 427 1703
info@rancilio-na.com
Please be polite. I look forward to the results. Keep us posted. Cheers
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kim77
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 4
Location: los angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia
Posted Mon Apr 29, 2013, 2:23pm
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

I just sent an email with photos to info@rancilio-na.com as you suggested. Thanks! And I will post the reply, if I receive one. In the meantime, I have purchased all the materials to fix this myself. I pride myself on being very self-sufficient, but this project might be beyond my capabilities...although I plan to try! I will refrain from saying that "this is what having a man around is good for" because it seems there are mostly men in this thread :) And I don't really believe it anyway! Wish me luck...
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,042
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Apr 29, 2013, 2:55pm
Subject: Re: Current owners of rusting Silvia espresso Machines Unite
 

Steve,

You are new here, I can assure you that I have no connection in any way with any manufacturer in any way. I never speak from my back side and I make every possible effort to help anyone I can.

I long ago earned my stripes on this board as one who trys to help and inform every place I can, please check out my join date, post count and status to the left if you might feel otherwise.

I understand you have issues, I have rebuilt a Sylvia from the ground up and documented it with pictures and a long step by step of it taking place. The plain truth is that rust happens. There would be no rust if you emptied the drip tray after each use and cleaned then dryed the frame with each use.

I'm sorry I was not able to give a more in depth reply earlier as I was. On vacation.
Please feel free to email me at my public email address in my bio info if you need any help in maintaining your machine.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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