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HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 4:15pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

mariog7 Said:

HX machines temps are invariable, at least from my understanding.

Posted March 29, 2013 link

Where did you hear THAT?
Follow Wayne's advice (Calblacksmith) and lower the stat to 1.0
My QM Anita always liked a max at 1.0, and it steamed just fine. If you are drinking darker roasts, even that might be too high a setting.

 
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 4:24pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

& here's a boiler temp chart, pressure = temp.

I can easily taste a 1F difference in brew temperature. With a .1 diff of a pressure stat, that's a 2F temperature difference.

CraigA: Managing the Brew Temperature of HX Espresso Machines  Home-Barista.jpg

 
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mariog7
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 4:28pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

Thanks, all.  And sorry if I sounds bitter (no pun intended) I'm just really frustrated.

Ok, I adjusted the PSTAT to cycle between .7 and 1.0 bar. Pulled a shot and still extremely bitter.  Here is a pic of the crema - do you guys think this looks too hot?  Should I dial the PSTAT down more?
Also, why would this change so drastically from one day to the next?

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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 4:34pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

mariog7 Said:

Ok, I adjusted the PSTAT to cycle between .7 and 1.0 bar.

Posted March 29, 2013 link

I'd have to Google to see/find your pressure stat, but does it have another (secondary) screw on the top of it.,  (like the Mater pstat pictured below) away from the central one., @ the 6 o'clock position?

Ignore the black arrows, this is a pic courtesy of Home Barista.com.

The reason I ask is that I believe (& it's been yrs since I looked at one), that the 2nd screw will adjust the deadband or hysteresis of the pressurestat & tighter up that .3 (or 6F!) spread. That's too wide IMO.

CraigA: Mater pressurestat.jpg

 
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 4:46pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

If the shots are bitter and your waterdance in a cooling flush is noticeably longer to your eye that has become accustomed to it, then it is definitely extracting at too high a temp.  But just lowering your boiler pressure isn't a fix, if it has always worked well at youe current boiler pressure (I think you said 0.9 to 1.2Bar on the gauge).
The heat exchanger has an inlet with an injector on it. Basically just a short tube to shoot the incoming, cold water up into the middle of the heat exchanger.  The heat exchanger has two outlets, one down below the inlet (Or "Behind the injector") and one at the top, or the far end of the Heat Exchanger.  As the temperature inside the heat exchanger changes(It cools when you're brewing and pumping that cold water in), the flow of water is supposed circulate through the two outlets and flow to the group in a reasonable ratio to provide continuous flow at a proper brewing temperature.  Usually it it the upper pipe that clogs as it has a restrictor in it (Or it does in Giottos, I don't know QMs too well).  The clogging of one of the pipes prevents the properly ratioed flow, clogged upper pipe brews far too cool.  Maybe sediment has collected around your HExchanger Inlet/injector and is clogging that lower outlet.
If/when one of the HExchanger outlets is clogged, one of the signs you will notice is that the E61 head takes much, much longer to warm up because there is no thermo-siphoning when one pipe is completely clogged.

If it seems to you that this is the case, a descaling of the brew-circuit might be in order.
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mariog7
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 4:55pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

Thanks for your suggestion.  But I don't think this is the case because the machine is only 1 year old and always connected to a water softener. I just descaled it last month, and the water was still clear / clean.  And the head heats up fast, as normal.  But thank you very much.
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 5:27pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

It would help if you provided more information regarding the issue:  

-  Did the problem start after you descaled the machine?  

-  How many ounces do you flush before brewing?

-  How long does the shot take?

- What has changed since the shots were good?  Include *everything* that's changed.
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mariog7
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 6:02pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

Thanks for your help.  Please see below.

dsblv Said:

It would help if you provided more information regarding the issue:  

-  Did the problem start after you descaled the machine?  
No, I descaled about 4-5 weeks ago and it worked fine afterwards.  Even when I descaled, the water came out clean because I run 3 filters + softener, and monitor periodically with ph strips.

-  How many ounces do you flush before brewing?
Typically a few oz (about 15 secs or so).  But now I can do a cooling flush for a minute and get a bitter shot.

-  How long does the shot take?
1.5 - 2 oz double in about 25 secs, depending how I grind.

- What has changed since the shots were good?  Include *everything* that's changed.

Posted March 29, 2013 link

Nothing whatsoever.
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dsblv
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 6:13pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

You flush for a minute?  How long do you wait before pulling a shot?

For comparison purposes, I flush 4-5 ounces after my machine has been on for an hour.  I pull a shot about 30 sec. after flushing.  If I flushed for a minute, the E-61 group would be way below nominal temperature.  

Having a group thermometer really helps managing brew temperature.  Chris Coffee sells them.  The thermometer really helps understand what the machine is doing.
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mariog7
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Posted Fri Mar 29, 2013, 6:56pm
Subject: Re: HX Machine Too Hot?  Non-drinkable bitter shots
 

Guys, please disregard this thread.  I'm going to bring it in for a professional eval when I have time.
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