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Another DB Quickmill
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Avalon
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Location: FL
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Aug 18, 2013, 5:02pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Would anyone know whether using one of those i(in tank) ( https://www.chriscoffee.com/Cat_ion_Water_Softener_p/mg180.htm ) resin softener filters that chris coffee sells for $14 is recommended for the vetrano 2b?  I've read conflicting opinions of this with regards to E61 groups. Some people say it is recommended while others say that it messes around with the intake and sometimes gunks up the valves of espresso machines. Does anyone have any experience with this? thanks!
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Mon Aug 19, 2013, 8:35am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Avalon Said:

Would anyone know whether using one of those i(in tank) ( https://www.chriscoffee.com/Cat_ion_Water_Softener_p/mg180.htm ) resin softener filters that chris coffee sells for $14 is recommended for the vetrano 2b?  I've read conflicting opinions of this with regards to E61 groups. Some people say it is recommended while others say that it messes around with the intake and sometimes gunks up the valves of espresso machines. Does anyone have any experience with this? thanks!

Posted August 18, 2013 link

Sorry Avalon, no experience. But I did order this: https://www.chriscoffee.com/In_Tank_Water_Filter_and_Softener_Assembly_p/9684.htm with my V2B and will be installing it. I'm also buying a water hardness detector to test out a bunch of bottled waters to see which are the softest of the bunch. I don't know how much I'll be able to attest to it "working" because the whole point of a water softener for me is to prevent scaling, which by definition takes a bit of time. And I can't really see into the boiler. The only way I could attest to its effectiveness is a few years down the road if I need to have the V2B professionally descaled or not...

I view this more as preventative maintenance. Kind of like changing your oil and filter in your car. Most of us don't ever get to see into our own engines, but if it keeps running for 15 years then it's all good.
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Avalon
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Location: FL
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Aug 19, 2013, 6:08pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

CarloM Said:

Sorry Avalon, no experience. But I did order this: https://www.chriscoffee.com/In_Tank_Water_Filter_and_Softener_Assembly_p/9684.htm with my V2B and will be installing it. I'm also buying a water hardness detector to test out a bunch of bottled waters to see which are the softest of the bunch. I don't know how much I'll be able to attest to it "working" because the whole point of a water softener for me is to prevent scaling, which by definition takes a bit of time. And I can't really see into the boiler. The only way I could attest to its effectiveness is a few years down the road if I need to have the V2B professionally descaled or not...

I view this more as preventative maintenance. Kind of like changing your oil and filter in your car. Most of us don't ever get to see into our own engines, but if it keeps running for 15 years then it's all good.

Posted August 19, 2013 link

Thanks for the reply CarloM.  Actually I was also looking at that same filter that you suggested  for the vetrano.  Im just not sure  which is more advantageous and economical of the two.  Ive heard that the resin ones can be recharged in salt.  That was why I was trying to see what the experience of other people were.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Mon Aug 19, 2013, 10:41pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Avalon Said:

Thanks for the reply CarloM.  Actually I was also looking at that same filter that you suggested  for the vetrano.  Im just not sure  which is more advantageous and economical of the two.  Ive heard that the resin ones can be recharged in salt.  That was why I was trying to see what the experience of other people were.

Posted August 19, 2013 link

To be honest, that's the one CCS recommended with my V2B purchase, so I'm not even sure what the difference is between the two. I'm hoping to find a bottled water solution that has 3 grains or less hardness, hopefully no more than 5, and so that each filter would roughly last 4-6 months. If I can get by with just $50 a year in consumables costs for filters (plus another $20 for gaskets and other consumables) I'm fine with that. I'd like not to have to buy 4 filters a year, so I'll test around several bottled water companies to see if I can find the one with the lowest TDS measurements.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 4:41am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Update on delivery from CCS just now on Facebook:

Chris' Coffee Service: Looks like the Vetrano 2B will not be here until Friday the Port is all backed up.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,462
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 5:18am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Something interesting, In the UK I write the user guides for Most hi end BB coffee machines that they sell, I do this because the Italian manuals are...well crap!. I always do a section about flushing new machines before first use, I realised that people didn't read the guide or do these flushes. So I put in red text on the cover page of the user guide.  "Before you switch the Verona on, read page 10 thru 13 of this guide", imagine my surprise when people STILL don't do this. I found out because the owner of BB who had swapped out his Duetto for the Verona said "do you get a funny taste in your steamed milk", "no I said", he said that he was, I asked him did he flush the machine, "yes" was the reply. I then asked if he flushed it as per the user guide I wrote, and it turns out he hadn't.

I cannot emphasise enough just how important it is to flush ALL new machines out properly (not just the Vetrano DB) and thoroughly, it gets rid of manufacturing residues that cause "new machine taste" and other off tastes. When I read reviews on the internet about the great coffee such and such machine made from a professional reviewer, who has had the machine for an afternoon, I am mystified, because they probably haven't flushed it properly and it takes a few weeks for new machine taste properly subside. So I'm going to reproduce that specific part of the manual from the Verona, for you guys.

so new machine:

  1. It takes weeks, yes weeks for the new machine taste to completely go away. Perversely, hard water speeds this process a little, for all the wrong reasons...

  2. How you need to flush a new Verona (Vetrano 2B)

Flushing the machine before 1st use

The manufacturing process and any subsequent testing could leave particles and tainted water within the machine. It is extremely important to ensure the machine is flushed clean before using. To do this:

  1. Fill the tank if necessary, there may be a short delay of 6-10 seconds before anything happens (opening the steam wand temporarily while the steam boiler is filling can speed up the process, remember to close it again though). Turn  on both boilers
  2. Lift Coffee brew lever until water comes through the group (just to ensure brew boiler is full)
  3. After the boilers are filled and come to operating temperature, about 6 min for Steam/Hot Water boiler and, approx 1 minute for brew boiler. Check boiler pressure is in the green area.
  4. Lift Coffee brew lever to draw brew water through the group for 40-60 seconds
  5. Place a container under steam wand and open tap to draw steam for 5-10 seconds
  6. Wait for steam pressure to reach normal e.g. 1.4 bar then switch off machine.
  7. Place a container under the hot water outlet and open tap to drain as much hot water as possible (approx 400ml)
  8. Refill water tank and repeat steps 1 through 7. AT LEAST 6 MORE TIMES
  9. Refill water tank, your ready to make coffee after it has all warmed up for around 30-40 minutes
    NB: Discard all water drawn from the machine during this flushing process. If the machine is not used for an extended period (you go on holiday), it may be useful to repeat this process, or drain down the machine and refill.


Now when I say draw steam for 5-10 seconds try at least 10 seconds and when I say at least 3 more times I mean at least 3 more times. So that's at least 4 in total. At least means the minimum I could stomach and still possibly drink the stuff and I also would feel blessed if the average home user would do this. I FLUSH A MACHINE THROUGH LIKE THIS AROUND 15 TIMES, otherwise I can still taste it and I have a review to do. I'll emphasise this again though, Lest means the minimum, its preferable to do it MORE!!

P.S. Bella Barista do this once already as part of their standard machine check before delivery. So my 6 in total becomes your AT LEAST 7 IN TOTAL!

The one area where the Vetrano has a challenge over some DB machines for flushing, is in it's incomplete draining of the steam boiler. The hot water outlet is not right at the bottom of the boiler, it's a little above and leaves around 400 ml still in the boiler. Great for not getting particles of crap in the valve and to ensure the boiler is never completely drained, it is good for thermal stress as well (whole issue i won't get into). However, it is more challenging to get a good flush and why you have to do it more times than on other machines. You could use the boiler drain valve on the bottom and flush only 3 or 4 times...but who wants to.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 5:55am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

....I cannot emphasise enough just how important it is to flush ALL new machines out properly...

Posted August 21, 2013 link

I had my water company leave me an extra 5 gallon (18.92 Liters) drinking water bottle this week just because I knew I would need it to flush the new machine. I am not sure 5 gallons is enough though if I need to flush it 15 times.
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emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 106
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 6:05am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Hi all!

I am on my cellphone, so it has harder to search through this thread to answer my question.

CCS, has a drop-down on 2B page for 15amp vs 20amp. Would you please explain the difference and the considerations between the two options?

Also, is that an either or prospect or simply a setting that can be changed by the user later?

Thanks!

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
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emil3m
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 106
Location: New York
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Vario
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 6:13am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

CarloM Said:

I'm also buying a water hardness detector to test out a bunch of bottled waters to see which are the softest of the bunch.

Posted August 19, 2013 link

Carol, please share your results when you get around to this. Will you be testing Poland Spring?

 
Currently in love with Hayes Valley by Blue Bottle--locally roasted next to my house in Brooklyn
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,462
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 6:45am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

I had my water company leave me an extra 5 gallon (18.92 Liters) drinking water bottle this week just because I knew I would need it to flush the new machine. I am not sure 5 gallons is enough though if I need to flush it 15 times.

Posted August 21, 2013 link

It will be fine, remember each flush run through is only around 500-600 ml in total. So if you want to do it as many times as me, then at most around 9 litres.

Dave
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