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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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Rhinoevans
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 178
Location: Las Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale S1, Starbucks...
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Posted Tue Jul 2, 2013, 5:33am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

CarloM Said:

Ok we all support CCS and appreciate their service, but are you really the kind of person ready to drop over 2 grand on a machine with little to no reviews?

I'm sorry but we must be in radically different income brackets because I can't drop over $2K without seeing some in depth reviews and testimonies on a machine.

Posted June 18, 2013 link


Yes. I know I am.  Bought a S1V1 in 2005 from Chris, and have never had better service.  His staff is excellent, answers every questions, and most email SAME DAY.  My SiV1 still running after almost 10 years and very little maintenance from me.  I was Ready to buy a new S1VII, but will probably get the new 2B, just form something different.
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sharky
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sharky
Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 176
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Compak K3 Touch
Posted Tue Jul 2, 2013, 6:05am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

JaniceAnn Said:

I asked about the external timer and was told that the machine would work on one.  

I also read, and if anyone knows this is incorrect please let me know, that the timer should plug into the wall outlet first, then the surge protector and then the machine.  This is so the
surge protector also keeps the timer from producing a surge that could affect the machine.

I have a surge protector but not a timer.  The surge protector plugs directly into the wall outlet and I am trying to figure out how to plug a timer into the wall outlet and the surge protector into the timer
without creating such a bulky mess.  I found a UPS surge protector with a built in timer but the guarantee is only for items that are UL (or the Canadian equivalent) listed and the Vetrano 2B is neither.  The surge protector I have now is a Panamax and it doesn't say that in the guarantee information.

Posted July 2, 2013 link



Here is the Panamax surge protector I use.  They are pricey, but have a lifetime warranty & are one of the best on the market!  I have it plugged in, with a small timer, as Zevi has stated below (the surge protector should be plugged into the wall first)  and it works perfectly!    


www.panamax.com/Products/Other/M2A20.php
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Zevi
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Tue Jul 2, 2013, 6:54am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

JaniceAnn Said:

I also read, and if anyone knows this is incorrect please let me know, that the timer should plug into the wall outlet first, then the surge protector and then the machine.  This is so the surge protector also keeps the timer from producing a surge that could affect the machine.

Posted July 2, 2013 link

That is incorrect -- you should not worry about what plugs into the wall first.
Surge protectors protect from high-voltage surges. A timer cannot generate such a (damaging) surge. Surges can only come from the electric grid (coming into your outlet). So if there's any preference to plugging order, it should be such that the protector would go into the wall first; this way the timer will also be protected.
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 622
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
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Posted Tue Jul 2, 2013, 8:13am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Zevi Said:

Surges can only come from the electric grid (coming into your outlet)..

Posted July 2, 2013 link

This is technically not true. Inductive loads such as motors can cause rather large transient spikes. This spike may not necessarily come from the appliance itself, but something nearby such as a refrigerator or garbage disposal when they switch on or off. Pure resistive loads do not cause spikes, but in the real world, spikes do happen and they are generated from all kinds of sources. Admittedly, most appliances can handle small transient spikes, but it doesn't hurt to have some kind of spike protection on electronic devices.  It is also better to have the protector removed from the device you want to protect by several feet (6 or more feet of wire).  The separation gives the MOVs in the surge protector time to clamp before the surge (edited for accuracy) spike actually has time to reach the device. More than 6 feet is even better.

It is true that very large spikes tend to come from outside of your home. If you worried about this, get a whole house surge protector and install it at your electrical service entrance. This is the best place for it and something many people can install themselves. Most of them install on a dedicated 2 pole breaker in residential applications.
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Zevi
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Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:16am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DeanOK Said:

This is technically not true. Inductive loads such as motors can cause rather large transient spikes...

Posted July 2, 2013 link

Dean, I think you want to read Janice's question. Her concern was with the order of connections:
wall outlet -> surge protector -> timer -> Espresso machine, or
wall outlet -> timer -> surge protector -> Espresso machine  "... so the surge protector also keeps the timer from producing a surge that could affect the machine."
In that context, the "grid" I was referring to was the cabling and everything that's "coming into your outlet". That is, any spike (either from outside the house or the air conditioning fan motor at the basement) will reach the outlet from behind the wall; the timer itself will not produce a surge that will affect the machine.
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JaniceAnn
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Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jul 2, 2013, 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

I read that the timer should be first to be plugged into the outlet, then the surge protector, then the machine, on the 1st Line Coffee website.

I have no idea if that is correct or not but that is where I got the information, if you all want to check it out.

http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Power-Protection-d58.htm
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cuznvin
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Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
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Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
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Posted Wed Jul 3, 2013, 3:42am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

JaniceAnn Said:

I read that the timer should be first to be plugged into the outlet, then the surge protector, then the machine, on the 1st Line Coffee website.

I have no idea if that is correct or not but that is where I got the information, if you all want to check it out.

http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Power-Protection-d58.htm

Posted July 2, 2013 link

Well, apparently the timer can cause a surge... I would follow Jim's advice.
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gz20tt
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Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Vac Pot: Bodum
Posted Wed Jul 3, 2013, 5:31pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

DavecUK Said:

The 24 page UK review is finished, just need to spell and grammar check it, send it off and see if/when they publish it. Once I know, I'll post back here. It's funny but I only realised after reading the whole review, just what a great machine we have here. My review is probably going to upset a few people, including the people who commissioned it. Mainly because retailers are like politicians, all machines are good, it's just what you prefer. In a sense true, but really this machine is better than others (for a lot of reasons), but if you prefer one of the others..well that's fine.

However, it is what it is....I'm not into sales reviews and I don't sell stuff....so not my problem ;-)

For now, my time is taken up with this 1kg big boy :)

Posted June 22, 2013 link

Hi Dave,
Potential Australian buyer here :)
These just appeared with a local supplier - although he's quoting 10 days delivery - so I guess he's getting them straight from the factory.

If it's not going to cause an issue with your formal review -
My question is around the steaming.
The Quickmill has a 1lt steam boiler, but a lot of its competitors have 1.5-1.7lt steam boilers - Rocket R58, Izzo Alex Duetto 2, Expobar Brewtus.
Is steaming large volumes/recovery an issue with the smaller steam boiler?
Since we are 230/240V (10 amps) - does that negate any of the issues that the Americans on 110V see?

This thing is priced locally exactly half way between a Brewtus/Minore and the Izzo - so I'm really tempted.

Cheers
Frankie
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Zevi
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Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Wed Jul 3, 2013, 7:06pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

JaniceAnn Said:

I read that the timer should be first to be plugged into the outlet, then the surge protector, then the machine, on the 1st Line Coffee website.

I have no idea if that is correct or not but that is where I got the information, if you all want to check it out.

http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Power-Protection-d58.htm

Posted July 2, 2013 link

Yes, I also saw that page.

Let me start by saying that I have the utmost respect to Jim and 1st Line. However, with all due respect, I think it's incorrect to associate the timer with a surge. Of course, there are several reasons to avoid a timer altogether, as pointed by many articles posted in various espresso-loving sites. Simply having a timer in the loop introduces a risk: from having the machine turn on with no water, to over-heating of under-rated plugs and sockets till they melt. But not as a surge source.

Let me be clear: I am NOT telling you whether you should or should not follow the recommendation on that page, or at which order to plug the timer and surge protector to the wall. What I AM saying is that the timer, in and of itself, is not a cause for a surge from which you need to protect your machine.

Surge protectors are designed to eliminate voltage surges/spikes. As mentioned before, these surges can come from outside the house (lightning, network voltage spike, etc.) or inside the house (e.g., large inductive devices/motors) that upon startup or stopping have extra voltage that needs dissipating. The timer device itself is simply an on/off switch that cannot store or generate that extra voltage that will create a surge. In that sense, it is not different than the on-off switch that is inside the machine! (and we know that there's no surge protector built into the espresso machine after the power switch...)

In addition, if the order of plugging items was really an issue, one would suspect that it will cause more "chatter" in these forums. Furthermore, no other major supplier of espresso machines has made such recommendation on their sites. In fact, when I called another supplier, they recommended plugging the surge protector to the wall, and the timer to the surge protector. An extensive internet search yielded no reference to preferring or recommending a certain connection order, or to the need of a surge protector between the timer and the device we wish to protect.

Good luck,
Zevi
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cuznvin
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Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Wed Jul 3, 2013, 7:13pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Yes, I also saw that page.

Let me start by saying that I have the utmost respect to Jim and 1st Line. However, with all due respect, I think it's incorrect to associate the timer with a surge. Of course, there are several reasons to avoid a timer altogether, as pointed by many articles posted in various espresso-loving sites. Simply having a timer in the loop introduces a risk: from having the machine turn on with no water, to over-heating of under-rated plugs and sockets till they melt. But not as a surge source.

Let me be clear: I am NOT telling you whether you should or should not follow the recommendation on that page, or at which order to plug the timer and surge protector to the wall. What I AM saying is that the timer, in and of itself, is not a cause for a surge from which you need to protect your machine.

Surge protectors are designed to eliminate voltage surges/spikes. As mentioned before, these surges can come from outside the house (lightning, network voltage spike, etc.) or inside the house (e.g., large inductive devices/motors) that upon startup or stopping have extra voltage that needs dissipating. The timer device itself is simply an on/off switch that cannot store or generate that extra voltage that will create a surge. In that sense, it is not different than the on-off switch that is inside the machine! (and we know that there's no surge protector built into the espresso machine after the power switch...)

In addition, if the order of plugging items was really an issue, one would suspect that it will cause more "chatter" in these forums. Furthermore, no other major supplier of espresso machines has made such recommendation on their sites. In fact, when I called another supplier, they recommended plugging the surge protector to the wall, and the timer to the surge protector. An extensive internet search yielded no reference to preferring or recommending a certain connection order, or to the need of a surge protector between the timer and the device we wish to protect.

Good luck,
Zevi[

So if the timer is plugged in first is it really going to make a whole hill of beans difference? bottom line is that it is safer that way no matter it can cause a surge or not, correct? Why take a chance?
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