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Another DB Quickmill
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 6:25pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

CSME9 Said:

This guy seems pretty happy with the lack of noise on his V2b....
Click Here (www.home-barista.com)

The Vivaldi Mini has strong steam power 4 oz in 12 seconds & 8 oz in 25 seconds  so you have to work quick with small amounts of milk. The steam lever is either on/off with no graduation in between. Pump is pretty quite, water tank in the front is easy to access, stable brew temp, 53mm basket makes good espresso.  Several friends own rotary tank/direct connect machines and they do not make the noise some of the V2b's have made.

Posted December 19, 2013 link

Didn't many here conclude that the noise started some time AFTER initial break in, and in some cases t took a couple of weeks to manifest itself?  The link / post starts off with "Day 3...."  Hopefully for his sake "Day 33... " is the same! Lol

I sure like the V2B, and still may get one, but it would be nice to know if the GRRR was fixed first, the root cause was understood and documented...
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 6:46pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

I'm not on the defensive.  You just read the proprietor of a major espresso machine reseller say it happened on other similar products, but you asked us to do research for you and post links (I'm taking it that you don't believe Chris who, unlike those of us who only own one or two machines, has sold and serviced thousands of machines of all makes/models).

So my saying "sorry" did not mean "I apologize to you" but rather, "sorry I have other things to spend my time on". I'm taking Chris at his word, He sells many makes and models, not just the V2B. He has a stellar reputation that he has to maintain, and one doesn't do that by being an apologist for any one of the brands he carries. But if you don't believe him then by all means feel free to search the forums.

I'm currently enjoying a fantastic mocha from my V2B. The local espresso tech to me has a MVII. He makes great drinks but I don't consider his results from the MVII superior to mine. We go for different drinks anyway: he likes pure, strong, slightly bitter espresso with a little half-and-half. I like the sweeter espresso shot obtained from Intelligentsia's Black Cat, mixed in a mocha with TCHO chocolate. I would put my mocha up against any mocha in L.A. short of Intelly (they use full cream to make the TCHO chocolate sauce which is a step I'm not willing to go). Not saying I would win all of those comparisons, but I certainly wouldn't be embarrassing myself.

With regards to steaming power, by all accounts the MVII is the most powerful steamer in the $2K range. But the problem with the V2B wasn't one of power, but rather of getting the right tip to most easily obtain the swirl/roll that leads to microfoam. The swirl/roll has as much or more to do with obtaining good microfoam than the power of the steamer once you get past a certain amount of power (like out of the lower-end SBDU range).

The irony is that the first V2B batches were shipped with QM's 2-hole tip. Many of us complained because it was supposed to ship with the 4-hole, which CCS promptly shipped to us. However it turns out that the 2-hole tip makes it much easier to obtain the swirl/roll than CCS's 4-hole tip. The irony is that there's a second 4-hole tip for the QM, made by QM exclusively, which I obtained from Seattle Coffee Gear. The tip is larger (as large as the 2-hole tip, CCS's 4-hole tip is smaller overall), but the holes in the official QM 4-hole tip are smaller than the CCS 4-hole tip, at least to the naked eye. So with extensive testing I've decided that for my skill, the 2-hole tip is best, followed by the QM 4-hole, and the CCS 4-hole in third place. Others who have different (better?) steaming technique may have different opinions. Now I have no problem obtaining microfoam. My pouring skill to obtain great art...well that's a different story.
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 7:03pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Thanks Carlo, sounds like you really like your V2B!  One testament for the quality of the machine...
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CSME9
Senior Member
CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 281
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Mitica Top, Spaz...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 7:47pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

SpaceTime Said:

Didn't many here conclude that the noise started some time AFTER initial break in, and in some cases t took a couple of weeks to manifest itself?  The link / post starts off with "Day 3...."  Hopefully for his sake "Day 33... " is the same! Lol

I sure like the V2B, and still may get one, but it would be nice to know if the GRRR was fixed first, the root cause was understood and documented...

Posted December 19, 2013 link

One reported the noise out of the box and several other owners heard their noises a short time after receiving the machines.
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sharky
Senior Member
sharky
Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Compak K3 Touch
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 8:08pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

I have no noise, am making great microfoam with the 2 hole tip, am killing the espresso shots, and could not ask for a better, more beautiful machine at any price!  Do I love my Vetrano 2B?  You betcha . . . and in 10 years I know I will still love it just as much!  Cheers!
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Zevi
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 112
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 8:25pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

CarloM Said:

I don't think you jinxed yourself Zevi, Chris from CCS chimed in that the noise we're hearing is due to rotary pump being used in tank mode, which can introduce air into the process. ... Since you're running in plumbed mode you shouldn't experience the noise.

Posted December 19, 2013 link

Actually Carlo, you might have misread my post -- I am running in tanked (what I called "reservoir'ed") mode.

A thought: do you pull out the tank to refill? Except for the first time, I never actually pulled thew tank out, or ran it dry; I fill it by pouring water into it. This is definitely something that reduces the chance of introducing air bubbles!
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Thu Dec 19, 2013, 8:57pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

sharky Said:

I have no noise, am making great microfoam with the 2 hole tip, am killing the espresso shots, and could not ask for a better, more beautiful machine at any price!  Do I love my Vetrano 2B?  You betcha . . . and in 10 years I know I will still love it just as much!  Cheers!

Posted December 19, 2013 link

Thanks to you guys, I am again officially stuck and taken a half step back on my next espresso machine LOL... the choice between the V2B and M VII is not an easy one.  They are really different animals that end up doing the same thing in the end.  Everything about them is different - the look, the construction, the group head, the interface, the interaction from the user (lever vs button).  The only thing I know for sure at this point is I want a Dual Boiler!!! LOL

I like the steam punk look of the V2B- it defines espresso for me - but my wife likes the muted, simple, pedestrian VII look.  Sometimes I think she likes the VII because she will not have to explain it away so much to visitors to her kitchen LOL !  The VII does blend a little better with the Vitamixer and Omega Juicer than the V2B does.  But the V2B is the best looking of the stainless ones - better than the Duetto, the R58,etc. Only thing that is not classic are the.... wait for it... yup, the you guessed it... LED lights!! :-)

We already covered the pro / con of the features, they are pretty much printed on my forehead at this point...

I need to sleep on this a night or two.  I also need to close the book soon on my Espresso machine search.  As much as I have mastered my FP process, and no matter how much I love the coffee that results, it is time for another espresso machine and an alternative!!  I am "jonesing" for a home-made shot!! It has been to long!  (hence the Jonesy Coffeenut).

But you guys know how this ends... I labor on two machines, then come back later and spent a grand more and got something completely different!

Cheers and thanks.
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sharky
Senior Member
sharky
Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Compak K3 Touch
Posted Fri Dec 20, 2013, 6:41am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

SpaceTime . . .
If you put the two on a counter side by side, which one gives you the WOW factor?  For me, it is a no brainer . . . The Vetrano 2B in polished stainless steel is a work of art!  It is simply a beautiful looking espresso machine that makes amazing espresso!  Everyone who sees it, loves it . . . and when I turn on the lights, they are just amazed!  I am not into a plastic machine regardless how great the shots are . . . they just look cheap to me!  That is my opinion.  CCS has probably sold 150+ Vetrano 2B machines by now, with only a select few having the noise issues.  I would not factor this into your decision.  I love my machine and I too, searched long & hard before I decided on the Vetrano 2b.  Everything else being equal, buy the one you will love to look at and work with, for the next 10+ years!  Good luck with your final decision . . .
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Fri Dec 20, 2013, 8:49am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

sharky Said:

SpaceTime . . .
If you put the two on a counter side by side, which one gives you the WOW factor?  For me, it is a no brainer . . . The Vetrano 2B in polished stainless steel is a work of art!   .

Posted December 20, 2013 link

Maybe I will do just that - buy them BOTH and put them side by side on the counter and alternate use each day!  That way I get DOUBLE WOW factor!!! LOL  Besides, I am really good at no-brainers, so this decision should be right up my alley!  

BTW, I am with you on the "art" factor.... I do like the V2B aesthetics, as I said, the steam punk DB's just say "espresso anyone" to me... I wish that were the only factor though.  The La Spaz guys have done some really innovative things in the VII line, and inserted semi-commercial functionality, reliability into the $2K DB price point...

On another note, and to support my point earlier about restaurants / small vendors actually using Mini's / VII's as an option, take a look at the forum - there is a post right now where a small coffee cart owner that sees as much as 10 customers an hour is weighing putting a Rancilio Epoca S1 (a commercial machine) vs putting a Mini Vivaldi in (which is probably more semi-commercial).  These kinds of examples speak volumes for the reliability, durability and quality (all the 'ity's) of the Vivaldi platform.  

Could you imagine putting a V2B on a coffee cart?  Not that I am comparing my potential home use to something similar to the requirements / volume of a coffee house or restaurant, but just that for <$2K you can get a platform / machine (The Mini VII) that COULD perform in those settings.  The VII / Mini's are just a different animal, and using that example really drives the point home... and why it is a tough choice for me.

Personally, I would put an Epoca on the cart if it were me - mainly because of it being a 2.9L boiler, and as an Hx machine getting 10 shots an hour would mean you would not have to be constantly re-stabilizing, flushing - this is where the Hx would shine in a commercial setting IMHO.  For the Mini VII, the .45 L brew boiler might be its undoing for 10 shots an hour due to needed recovery time - especially if 15A were the only option. (you have to assume the machine is running off tank, and not plumbed also on a coffee cart - recall the VII (non-Mini) has bigger boilers).
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Dec 20, 2013, 9:39am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill
 

Zevi - yep I misread you. Never mind, you jinxed yourself. :D

SpaceTime - don't stress too much about the machine. You know it's only a stopgap until you can save up to buy the new single group Kees Van Der Westen Speedster anyway!
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