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Help is needed for my Duetto 3
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Help is needed...  
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IMAWriter
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IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,965
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 2:03pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Nto mentioned (unless I missed it) would be whether the Duetto is running at 15 or 20 AMPS?
I have a friend with  Duetto and it remains pretty steady in the 20AM, but didn't so much at 15 AMP. YMMV,m however, as your 15 amp outlet may less used than his.

 
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,466
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:45am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Italo2275 Said:

ok I have a feeling that bad luck is on my back all the time LOL
So I try and remove the Bolts to get to the Brew pressure and I see that one Bolt and washer are missing from the side. I go to the Store and buy one same as the one that was there and try to screw it in. I then realized why it was missing, because the threading inside was all messed up, so who ever put the machine back together left it with one nut holding the casing. Honestly I do not want to go back to the dealer so I might as well leave it.

Posted March 12, 2013 link

Yeah, this is sloppy work by the whoever removed the case and refitted it. The fittings you see are not the same as the old superior captive nut system they used to use. The floating nature made it easy for the nut to self align with the machine screw. This is important with a heavy case, because as you have experienced what happens when these don't align properly, you get a stripped thread. I have drilled out quite a few of these in my time, the Vivaldi S1 was full of the damm things and once I had to drill one out to get access to the interior of the machine. It had been overtightened and just started spinning in the frame, this makes them impossible to remove. Drilling them out with a steel machine screw in, is not easy and if you have no access to them from the bottom with grips, that's what you have to do. Also if you think about it, they are REALLY difficult to drill out with a screw in (when they start spinning in the frame)) because they just spin and the drill won't bite into the machine screw!!.

I guess it's a warning to anyone removing the case....do it properly and VERY carefully, also why don't you all ask Chris Coffee to insist they revert back to the old "captive nut" system, because with their case and the way it fits it's a FAR better system (plus the captive nut was a very hard steel, unlike the grip riveted threaded insert!!

Here is an extract from my review of the UK model Duetto.

The double skinned cool wall external case, with extra ventilation. Steel retaining bolts at the top of the case, give a secure fit and eliminate vibration in this area (these should not be over tightened as they now only fit into a grip riveted threaded insert). They are more difficult to line up and quite fiddly to screw in, compared to previous models.

Izzo are now using a "standard" securing fitment in more areas of the case, see  (B). These are common on most/all prosumer machines. They are a simple grip riveted, threaded insert applied using pressure. If over tightened the grip can be broken and they spin in place, making screw removal difficult or impossible (even drilling out the fitting is not easy because, it can spin!) and not easily replaced by consumers. In addition they don't float like the old  "captive nut system" see (A). I preferred the previous fitting system and hopefully they won’t lose any more of these features in future machines.


I must stress though, pretty much all prosumer machines use the inferior type of fittting, they have unfortunately become ubiquitous in these machines.

DavecUK: captive.JPG
(Click for larger image)
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Italo2275
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Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 5:41am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Hi Dave
The issue here is that the hole does not line up at all and there is a piece of metal covering half of the hole. The only solution is to drill the metal of the braket, and I am not equiped to do that.The other side is ok, its just one side that is messed up.
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DavecUK
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Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 6:57am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

They will usually line up, but the case will have to be "held" in a certain position for it to do so....like I say, it's not a great fitting system, certainly not one I like at all.
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,303
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
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Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 9:49am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Italo2275 Said:

Hi Dave
The issue here is that the hole does not line up at all and there is a piece of metal covering half of the hole. The only solution is to drill the metal of the braket, and I am not equiped to do that.The other side is ok, its just one side that is messed up.

Posted March 13, 2013 link

Maybe you can take the case to a machine shop, and ask them to fix it with a better solution?

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Jmanespresso
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Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 11:58am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Italo2275 Said:

I know what you are saying and I am Stumped on this. I have a Mazzer mini and yes I grind before the shot, the beans I use are about 10 days old from a local place. I am not sure what bean it is.
The Puck is not like soup but breaks easy. I will pay with it some more today.

Posted March 11, 2013 link


My first suggestion, is to order some beans from a top Artisan roaster.  Remove all doubt that the coffee is the culprit.  I suggest something easy to work with..  Klatch House Espresso, Batdorf and Bronson Dancing Goats, or Redbird are all incredibly easy to pull great shots with.  You should have no touble with  a dual boiler and a mazzer mini.

Set your PID to 198, 199, or 200F.  Why not start at 199F and see how you like it(I can attest, all those coffees work well at those three temps.  199F will be a middle ground between sweeter chocolate, or more fruit creeping in)
Use the double basket that the machine came with.
Dose 17grams.  Ensure that every single time you dose the coffee, its EXACTLY the same.  USe a .1gram scale, every time.  17grams, on the duetto, in the stock double basket, works nicely for me.
Grind, Dose, Do a little WDT stir action, and tamp down straight, once down, once up, thats it.
Lock in, and pull.  With those three blends, shoot for 1.5oz in 35 seconds.  Pull it into one cup to make it easier to see how much you're getting.

You need to use a bottomless to ensure you're doing things right.  Using those coffees, at those doses, at those temperatures, with that flow rate/volume, and assuming you distributed properly and didn't have channeling...  If you dont get good shots, then either something is wrong with your equipment, or you dont enjoy espresso.(And I say that with care, not as insult.  I think you DO enjoy espresso, just are hitting some road blocks at the moment)


Edit- The resulting puck from that dose, with that flow/shot volume, should knock out solid, but not hard hockey puck solid.  Generally with 17grams in the double basket, Ill see a little puddle of water on top of the puck when I remove the portafilter, and depending on how I knock the puck out into my knockbox, it might stay solid, it might break apart.  Just so you know, post shot pucks don't tell much, but if you want a super dry, hard puck on an E61, use the maximum dose possible for whatever basket you're using.  The more headspace, the wetter the puck.  Currently, today, I was running shots at 21 grams, in my ridgeless triple, which is a tad more headspace then I usually leave.  All my pucks had a slight puddle on them after removing the portafilter, and almost all of them broke when I knocked them out.  My knockbox was full of pieces of pucks, and piles of clumps.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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chuffer
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 12:38pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Jmanespresso Said:

My first suggestion, is to order some beans from a top Artisan roaster.  Remove all doubt that the coffee is the culprit.  I suggest something easy to work with..  Klatch House Espresso, Batdorf and Bronson Dancing Goats, or Redbird are all incredibly easy to pull great shots with.  You should have no touble with  a dual boiler and a mazzer mini.

Set your PID to 198, 199, or 200F.  Why not start at 199F and see how you like it(I can attest, all those coffees work well at those three temps.  199F will be a middle ground between sweeter chocolate, or more fruit creeping in)
Use the double basket that the machine came with.
Dose 17grams.  Ensure that every single time you dose the coffee, its EXACTLY the same.  USe a .1gram scale, every time.  17grams, on the duetto, in the stock double basket, works nicely for me.
Grind, Dose, Do a little WDT stir action, and tamp down straight, once down, once up, thats it.
Lock in, and pull.  With those three blends, shoot for 1.5oz in 35 seconds.  Pull it into one cup to make it easier to see how much you're getting.

You need to use a bottomless to ensure you're doing things right.  Using those coffees, at those doses, at those temperatures, with that flow rate/volume, and assuming you distributed properly and didn't have channeling...  If you dont get good shots, then either something is wrong with your equipment, or you dont enjoy espresso.(And I say that with care, not as insult.  I think you DO enjoy espresso, just are hitting some road blocks at the moment)


Edit- The resulting puck from that dose, with that flow/shot volume, should knock out solid, but not hard hockey puck solid.  Generally with 17grams in the double basket, Ill see a little puddle of water on top of the puck when I remove the portafilter, and depending on how I knock the puck out into my knockbox, it might stay solid, it might break apart.  Just so you know, post shot pucks don't tell much, but if you want a super dry, hard puck on an E61, use the maximum dose possible for whatever basket you're using.  The more headspace, the wetter the puck.  Currently, today, I was running shots at 21 grams, in my ridgeless triple, which is a tad more headspace then I usually leave.  All my pucks had a slight puddle on them after removing the portafilter, and almost all of them broke when I knocked them out.  My knockbox was full of pieces of pucks, and piles of clumps.

Posted March 13, 2013 link

I am a brand new Duetto 3 owner and have been living with the machine for about 2 weeks now. This is my first espresso machine and I'm sort of stumbling along blindly with it. I just wanted to stop and say that I found this post extremely helpful. Thank you!
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Italo2275
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 1:34pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Hi Chuffer
can you share what stubles and issues you have had?
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chuffer
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 4:03pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

The only issue that I've had with the machine itself was the steaming performance. Thanks to advice on here I quickly remedied that by turning my no burn steam wand into a fingerprint eraser and now my Duetto steams like a champ. The temp indicator for my brew boiler does move by about 2° off the set point, but I'm not too worried about that based on reading I've done about the stability of the temperature actually being put to the coffee. I was going to try the PID settings listed in this thread, but I bought my machine from Chris's Coffee and when I went to put those settings in I found that the machine already came to me programmed with them.

Other than that all of my issues have been the normal problems of a complete newbie pulling shots on his first machine. Grind, temp, dose, consistency in my routine, etc. From a machine standpoint I'm entirely satisfied with my AD3.
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Italo2275
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Mar 13, 2013, 4:56pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

ok
Here is my latest shot 16gm coffee with my Naked PF, I think is still two long. So maybe I need to make my grind less fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i0eVfWpmNI
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