solinar Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2011 Posts: 4 Location: New Orleans Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 2:21pm Subject: Advise on low end equipment
So, I was a moderate coffee drinker until my boss got a Nespresso machine at work. After a couple of years of Nespresso and enjoying espressos while out, I have decided to purchase a machine at home.
My first thought was a Nespresso Pixie like we have at work. But to be honest, at $0.70 per shot, and for what it produces, I have started to think about going the traditional route.
1) What kind of drinks do you like/want to make? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's capabilities.) I drink pretty much only cappuccinos
2) How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself needing to make at at one time? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's ability to work continuously.) 95% of the time, 1 Double Shot cappuccino for myself, rarely a 2nd or third drink for friends when entertaining.
3) How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself making in any given week? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's durability.) 20-30 shots per week.
4) Can you plumb a machine directly into the water supply, or do you want/need a pourover machine with its own reservoir? Reservoir preferred, but I have water nearby.
5) Do you have a 20-amp circuit available, or only a (standard) 15-amp circuit? 15 Amp, could run a 20 amp if it was especially worth it.
6) What is your budget for a new machine? Does that also include a grinder? If not, what is your budget for a grinder? $200 for the machine, and less would be better, as I will be looking to buy a grinder later on rather than borrowing a friends Breville burr grinder.
Also, I need a stainless/chrome/nickel finish per the wife.
I'm fine with used/reconditioned. It seems the Gaggia classic seems to be one of this forum's darlings, but the only ones I have seen in that price range are on ebay and are listed as "vintage".
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 2:35pm Subject: Re: Advise on low end equipment
Note: this is my opinion only, YMMV, IANAB, etc.
Buy an Aeropress for $30—it's going to make better coffee than any $200 "espresso" machine. Then start saving up for a good espresso-quality grinder, which you'll be able to use to make your Aeropress coffee even better. Then, and only then, start saving for an espresso machine and figure a minimum of $500-600 if buying a new SBDU and $1k if going HX. Used, you can get for less, but either get more educated or find a friend who knows his stuff to hel check out the used stuff.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,720 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 3:00pm Subject: Re: Advise on low end equipment
Welcome to CG, and thank you for answering the standard questions!!!
Based on what you've said, I'm guessing you'll be making 3-4 cappas for yourself everyday. If you don't entertain more than you anticipate, you should be fine with a SBDU machine. As you've seen, the Gaggia Classic is about at low end as me tend to recommend here. It's not so much that it's loved, but that it meets bare minimum standards for us at the best price in it's class.
Given you aren't going to be able to purchase a grinder, it's hard to recommend anything espresso for you within your budget. If you can stretch your budget a little, maybe get yourself a G. Classic in decent shape used (might take some ebay or craigslist patience) and buy yourself a Hario Slim or Skerton hand grinder, you can get by until you save up enough money for a refurbished Baratza Preciso.
Or...as George said, get yourself an Aeropress. It's a good option.
takeshi Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 731 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 4:33pm Subject: Re: Advise on low end equipment
solinar Said:
6) What is your budget for a new machine? Does that also include a grinder? If not, what is your budget for a grinder? $200 for the machine, and less would be better, as I will be looking to buy a grinder later on rather than borrowing a friends Breville burr grinder.
I have a friends breville burr grinder to play with for now, but its not a permanent solution. I dont have a budget for a grinder now as it wouldnt do me much good without something to brew with, and i do have the loaner for the time being.
I do look forward to doing some research here and getting my own grinder in the future.
Any idea if this a gaggia labeled "vintage" http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Gaggia-Classic-Espresso-Machine-/160988833785?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item257baea7f9 is different enough from current ones to disqualify it from being a good buy?
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 464 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 11:12pm Subject: Re: Advise on low end equipment
Takeshi is right,
Many people think that it is the espresso machine which makes the drink, but it only one part of the equation. The coffee grinder is even more important than the machine.
I would say that a bottom end "Espresso-Capable" grinder starts at somewhere around $300 new. You might be able to find something used, but beware.. Just because a grinder says "Espresso" on it doesn't mean that it can grind fine enough or consistently enough to make proper espresso.
BTW, I don't know what kind of Breville Espresso grinder you have.. If you borrowed a Breville Smart Grinder, (ie. BCG800XL) then they are espresso capable. If it is anything else, like the BCG450XL, it isn't good enough to grind properly for real espresso. You will have to be stuck buying a machine with a pressurized portafilter.
IMHO, I don't honestly see the point in spending a good chunk of money on a machine if you don't have a proper grinder to use with it. If you use a pressurized portafilter to compensate for a poor grinder or a cheap grinder, you're just making strong coffee and not real espresso.
I've always told people before on this forum that if you don't want to play with toys and you want something reliable and dependable which produces a great cup of coffee, you should budget at least $1000 for both a machine and a grinder as well as any accessories which go with them.
I realize that does sound like a lot of cash, but if you spend it, the reward will be worth it.
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 2:24am Subject: Re: Advise on low end equipment
Another of my expensive hobbies is photography. As they've all said, it's the grinder first, the machine second. Just in photography, it's the lens first, the camera second.
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 5:27am Subject: Re: Advise on low end equipment
its not what you want to hear, but if you don't buy a grinder you're just wasting your money. Feel free to do as you wish, but you WILL be dissapointed with the drink quality if you don't buy a grinder. There is a reason many of us own grinders approaching two thousand dollars, and in some cases, over $2k. You don't need to spend that kind of money for a quality grinder, but you DO NEED a grinder. For an electric grinder, about $250-300 is the bare minimum. The Hario Skerton hand grinder can be had for about $50.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
solinar Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2011 Posts: 4 Location: New Orleans Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 6:23am Subject: Re: Advise on low end equipment
Jmanespresso Said:
its not what you want to hear, but if you don't buy a grinder you're just wasting your money. Feel free to do as you wish, but you WILL be dissapointed with the drink quality if you don't buy a grinder. There is a reason many of us own grinders approaching two thousand dollars, and in some cases, over $2k. You don't need to spend that kind of money for a quality grinder, but you DO NEED a grinder. For an electric grinder, about $250-300 is the bare minimum. The Hario Skerton hand grinder can be had for about $50.
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