D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,225 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 9:26pm Subject: Re: Reputable steamers
Not really trying to wow you, just keep you interested in Gaggia. :) PID will help, and make it better and easier, but Gaggia will still be SBDU. Your use can certainly outgrow it and then you will be fanboy for something else :(
jimboc Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2013 Posts: 11 Location: Sydney Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: mypressi twist Grinder: Baratza Precico
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 3:19am Subject: Re: Reputable steamers
Jmanespresso Said:
The key to amazing, pro level microfoam, is simple really. Bone Dry Steam, constant steam pressure, and good technique. The faster you can inject air into the milk, and the sooner you can start rolling the milk, the better the microfoam will be. If you have to stretch all the way to 100F, and then roll to 160F, your milk will not be nearly as silky and sweet as if you can be done injecting air in the first two or three seconds, before the milk even gets lukewarm, and the roll the milk the entire way up to 160F.. Assuming you injected the right amount of air, your milk will be textbook level perfection.
Some random thoughts, please feel free to correct as this is a new world to me.
I've just had a bit of play this afternoon with a Bellman steamer. It's a 1.2L canister and I filled it with 800mL. That's a reasonable size I guess compared to the Silvia's 360mL boiler, but well short of the 2L in the Oscar that Markarian mentioned was a talented steamer, or 15-17L boilers I see in some of the 2-3 group machines. (Any idea if boiler sizes quoted for coffee machines are the canister size or the water level?)
The biggest issue I see with a stovetop steamer such as the Bellman is pressure dropping rather than the boiler size. The maximum gas flame I could heat with on a domestic hob I calculated to be the equivalent of about a 300-330W immersion heater type boiler. About a third of the power of the Silvia's 952W heater.
From what I've read the Bellman builds up to about 2.2 bar before the pressure relief kicks in. Opening the steam valve at that point will dump some good steam into the milk, but the gas hob just can't keep up and it feels pretty gutless during the 60 sec or so of heating after stretching for 4oz of milk.
The Silvia, from its heater size and wattage, sounds to me like it's not that powerful to start with but at least it doesn't radically drop in output. Is that accurate?
The Oscar has a 1200W heater. Take some of that off for the heat exchanger and the heater isn't too far off the Silvia. I guess the Oscar doesn't need a bigger heater because the milk is steamed and done with before the heater is asked to keep up. This configuration sounds good.
So it seems like there are quite a few variables.
Pressure is interesting too. At 2.2 bar water boils at 123°C (254°F), so the steam coming out would be hotter than a 1-1.2 bar, heating the milk quicker. Sounds good, but could the resulting steam temperature here hitting the milk be hot enough to kill sweetness and make the foam overly stiff?
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 475 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 4:27am Subject: Re: Reputable steamers
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if I am actually correct in stating the Oscar's 2.3L boiler is the largest in a "home" HX machine, that is, one that isn't exclusively plumbed?
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 5:20am Subject: Re: Reputable steamers
Actually, no its not.
The Vibiemme Domobar Super HX is 2.7L. Its a damn monster.
and while I dont agree that direct plumb means not a home machine, but the Domobar Super HX, comes in regular old reservoir/vibe pump models too.
but, yes, the Oscar is one of the biggest boiler pourover HX machines. Most are 1.X Liters.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
jimboc Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2013 Posts: 11 Location: Sydney Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: mypressi twist Grinder: Baratza Precico
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 6:32am Subject: Re: Reputable steamers
I've seen some specs listing the Oscar with a 2.3L boiler and others with a 2.0L. Even SCG say it's 2.3L in one video and 2.0L in another. Maybe the confusion is because the water tank is 2.3L?
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,071 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Mar 12, 2013, 7:55am Subject: Re: Reputable steamers
I am not a fan boy of a machine, a prescribed formula, method per se,I AM A FAN OF THE BEAN The term fan boy you can keep for yourself my freind.
D4F Said:
Not really trying to wow you, just keep you interested in Gaggia. :) PID will help, and make it better and easier, but Gaggia will still be SBDU. Your use can certainly outgrow it and then you will be fanboy for something else :(
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 