email2r2 Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2010 Posts: 22 Location: Magog, Qc, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill QM67 Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 2:46pm Subject: The classic question
My first espresso set-up has been suggested by members right on this site. As an entry combo, I bought a Rancilio Silvia and a Baratza Vario. Since I'm a technician in real life, I mod the Silvia with a Auber PID (the preinfusion type), glycerin filled pressure gauge, cooling fan for the PID and relays to be able to run the machine manually without the interference of the PID. THe mods have been made like if it was build by Rancilio and I always got good comment with my work.
Anyway, at first I was the only one hooked on espresso in the family and they didn't understand why I was spending so much money just for coffee. With time, everyone was asking me to make them espresso, so the Silvia can't put up with the pace anymore. I 'm now in the process of selling my Silvia to buy something more powerfull. The Rancilio is built like a tank and I have only good comments to give and that's the kind of qualities I would like to have with my new machine. I'm ready to spend up to $2k for a dual boiler machine and would like to get your suggestions once again. I need something reliable that you'll be able to get spare parts 20 years from now. You don't spend $2000 on a coffee machine to get stucked with it 5 years later because something broke and you can't get the part to fix it.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,716 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 6:27pm Subject: Re: The classic question
2k puts you prosumer class, so all of the machines you'll be looking at should last you 20+ years, especially with you being able to make repairs and do maintenance. The only DB machine I know of under 2k is the Breville, which has a good chance of frustrating you in the long run. For prosumer DBs (new ones, at least) you'll be dropping ~2.5k. Is there a reason you don't want a HX machine?
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,716 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 6:52pm Subject: Re: The classic question
Not necessarily. It's more like manual v auto transmission...which do you prefer. DB takes some of the control away from the user. If you like to play around with different beans in a session or want to play around with different flavor profiles through single dosing and temp of extraction adjustment, the HX is more flexible. If ou tend to stay with bean/blend x for a while and want consistency then DB will give you that. Calblacksmith wrote an excellent post on HX a month or two ago...so good I saved it on my PC...of course, I'm on my phone now, but if you can't find it, I can send it to you later (prolly tomorrow).
darkow Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2012 Posts: 105 Location: Wisconsin Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar Grinder: Vario W Drip: Breville YouBrew
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 7:27pm Subject: Re: The classic question
emradguy Said:
2k puts you prosumer class, so all of the machines you'll be looking at should last you 20+ years, especially with you being able to make repairs and do maintenance. The only DB machine I know of under 2k is the Breville, which has a good chance of frustrating you in the long run. For prosumer DBs (new ones, at least) you'll be dropping ~2.5k. Is there a reason you don't want a HX machine?
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 8:39pm Subject: Re: The classic question
The Expobar Brewtus IV is just under $2k. It's a DB and is available in a rotary or vibe pump model. The rotary pump model requires that it be plumbed in (no tank). That's the one I ended up with, and it's been great. I can't imagine going back to filling tanks, and the espresso has been top notch. Steaming power is strong. Really enjoying it.
BTW, DB machines may or may not give you better temp recovery to pull multiple shots vs. an HX machine. DBs will give you better temperature stability than an HX machine, though. My machine seems to hold temp pretty well as long as I'm not dumping a bunch of water through the grouphead (which typically isn't necessary). For example, if I do a full clean of the system, it'll dip from 197F to 192F by the time I'm done, but that's pulling a lot of water through the system, and very fast. Shot to shot temps are normally pretty consistent. Steaming won't change brew temps unless I'm emptying the hot water spout. The Brewtus uses a 15A connection, so it alternates heating the brew boiler and the steam boiler. If it focuses too much on the steam boiler, it can cause the brew temp to dip just a bit, but it recovers quickly. 20A machines might be able to get around this, as they can draw enough current to run both boilers; of course, you'll need a 20A circuit to support it. The Brewtus gives you the option to shut off the steam boiler and run only the brew boiler if you'd like, which brings the machine up to temp quicker and saves energy.
There are lots of other good machines out there as well in that ~$2K range.
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 9:23pm Subject: Re: The classic question
What kind of load we talking, which did the Silvia in?
email2r2 Said:
Anyway, at first I was the only one hooked on espresso in the family and they didn't understand why I was spending so much money just for coffee. With time, everyone was asking me to make them espresso, so the Silvia can't put up with the pace anymore.
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