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Espresso: Espresso Machines
The classic question
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > The classic...  
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email2r2
Senior Member
email2r2
Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Magog, Qc, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill QM67
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 2:46pm
Subject: The classic question
 

My first espresso set-up has been suggested by members right on this site. As an entry  combo, I bought a Rancilio Silvia and a Baratza Vario. Since I'm a technician in real life, I mod the Silvia with a Auber PID (the preinfusion type), glycerin filled pressure gauge, cooling fan for the PID and relays to be able to run the machine manually without the interference of the PID. THe mods have been made like if it was build by Rancilio and I always got good comment with my work.

Anyway, at first I was the only one hooked on espresso in the family and they didn't understand why I was spending so much money just for coffee. With time, everyone was asking me to make them espresso, so the Silvia can't put up with the pace anymore.
I 'm now in the process of selling my Silvia to buy something more powerfull. The Rancilio is built like a tank and I have only good comments to give and that's the kind of qualities I would like to have with my new machine.
I'm ready to spend up to $2k for a dual boiler machine and would like to get your suggestions once again. I need something reliable that you'll be able to get spare parts 20 years from now. You don't spend $2000 on a coffee machine to get stucked with it 5 years later because something broke and you can't get the part to fix it.

Please tell me what you think...
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,119
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 6:27pm
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

2k puts you prosumer class, so all of the machines you'll be looking at should last you 20+ years, especially with you being able to make repairs and do maintenance. The only DB machine I know of under 2k is the Breville, which has a good chance of frustrating you in the long run. For prosumer DBs (new ones, at least) you'll be dropping ~2.5k. Is there a reason you don't want a HX machine?

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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email2r2
Senior Member
email2r2
Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Magog, Qc, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill QM67
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 6:36pm
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

No particular reason but I tought DB had a better temp recovery to do multiple shots one after another which is my main problem with the Silvia
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,119
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 6:52pm
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

Not necessarily. It's more like manual v auto transmission...which do you prefer. DB takes some of the control away from the user. If you like to play around with different beans in a session or want to play around with different flavor profiles through single dosing and temp of extraction adjustment, the HX is more flexible. If ou tend to stay with bean/blend x for a while and want consistency then DB will give you that. Calblacksmith wrote an excellent post on HX a month or two ago...so good I saved it on my PC...of course, I'm on my phone now, but if you can't find it, I can send it to you later (prolly tomorrow).

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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tinytot2
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Wisconsin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar
Grinder: Vario W
Drip: Breville YouBrew
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 7:27pm
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

emradguy Said:

2k puts you prosumer class, so all of the machines you'll be looking at should last you 20+ years, especially with you being able to make repairs and do maintenance. The only DB machine I know of under 2k is the Breville, which has a good chance of frustrating you in the long run. For prosumer DBs (new ones, at least) you'll be dropping ~2.5k. Is there a reason you don't want a HX machine?

Posted March 10, 2013 link

I think the Mini Vivaldi II is just under 2k.  It has a 53mm portafilter, though, if that would bother you.
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OttoMatic
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 78
Location: Colorado
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Brewtus IV-R
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario,...
Drip: Capresso MT500+
Roaster: Cast iron dutch oven
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 8:39pm
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

The Expobar Brewtus IV is just under $2k.  It's a DB and is available in a rotary or vibe pump model.  The rotary pump model requires that it be plumbed in (no tank).  That's the one I ended up with, and it's been great.  I can't imagine going back to filling tanks, and the espresso has been top notch.  Steaming power is strong.  Really enjoying it.

BTW, DB machines may or may not give you better temp recovery to pull multiple shots vs. an HX machine.  DBs will give you better temperature stability than an HX machine, though.  My machine seems to hold temp pretty well as long as I'm not dumping a bunch of water through the grouphead (which typically isn't necessary).  For example, if I do a full clean of the system, it'll dip from 197F to 192F by the time I'm done, but that's pulling a lot of water through the system, and very fast.  Shot to shot temps are normally pretty consistent.  Steaming won't change brew temps unless I'm emptying the hot water spout.  The Brewtus uses a 15A connection, so it alternates heating the brew boiler and the steam boiler.  If it focuses too much on the steam boiler, it can cause the brew temp to dip just a bit, but it recovers quickly.  20A machines might be able to get around this, as they can draw enough current to run both boilers; of course, you'll need a 20A circuit to support it.  The Brewtus gives you the option to shut off the steam boiler and run only the brew boiler if you'd like, which brings the machine up to temp quicker and saves energy.

There are lots of other good machines out there as well in that ~$2K range.

Good luck!
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Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,271
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 9:23pm
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

What kind of load we talking, which did the Silvia in?

email2r2 Said:

Anyway, at first I was the only one hooked on espresso in the family and they didn't understand why I was spending so much money just for coffee. With time, everyone was asking me to make them espresso, so the Silvia can't put up with the pace anymore.

Please tell me what you think...

Posted March 10, 2013 link

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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,391
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 9:42pm
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

tinytot2 Said:

. . . if that would bother you.

Posted March 10, 2013 link

Why would it?

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,391
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Mar 10, 2013, 9:44pm
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

OttoMatic Said:

DBs will give you better temperature stability than an HX machine, though.

Posted March 10, 2013 link

Not necessarily -- depends upon the machine AND the talent of the operator.  Don't forget the 4M's . . .

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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tinytot2
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
Posts: 113
Location: Wisconsin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar
Grinder: Vario W
Drip: Breville YouBrew
Posted Mon Mar 11, 2013, 6:03am
Subject: Re: The classic question
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Why would it?

Posted March 10, 2013 link

Well, it wouldn't bother me personally, but thought the OP would like to know seeing they are using a 58 and already have the tamper that.

And yes, I understand that a new tamper could easily be purchased.
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