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Help is needed for my Duetto 3
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Help is needed...  
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gearbolt
Senior Member
gearbolt
Joined: 9 Aug 2007
Posts: 39
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0
Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario
Vac Pot: Kona
Roaster: TBD
Posted Wed Mar 6, 2013, 1:07am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Some updates:

I reduced the brewing temp to 198F and the pressure to just a bit above 9bars (it was set 9.5 bars before)
and use the suggested PID setting by Dave.  The result is much better now.  The PID temp display is much more stable
around 198F.   The Redbird espresso tastes even better than before, which really surprises me.  I was only changing
the dose amount, grind fineness and temp pressure and I thought I got it.    But it is a very pleasant and welcome
surprise.  :)   I also tried some medium-to-dark roasted beans from CCS and could also get improvement from these
changes.    

I will report back if there is anything out of ordinary in the long run.

Thanks forum members for their feedbacks, especially from Dave for sharing his expertise.  Much appreciated.

Cheers,
David
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Wed Mar 6, 2013, 5:54am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

The fact that you can consistently taste a difference in a 1 degree change is well confirmation of how temp stable the machine is off set calculations aside. My II was set about 9.75 and I turned it down to dead on 9.0 and prefer the results across the board but Redbird currently being the "House Blend" so i brew more of that than others.

I am curious if your brew pressure is the same through a puck and on a blind? Mine has always been dead on the same at least on the machine gauge. I have read others who say theirs change a bit.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,165
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Mar 6, 2013, 12:00pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

I also dropped my brew pressure from around 9.75 to 9.0 and am much happier with the results.

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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gearbolt
Senior Member
gearbolt
Joined: 9 Aug 2007
Posts: 39
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0
Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario
Vac Pot: Kona
Roaster: TBD
Posted Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:47pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

jwoodyu Said:

The fact that you can consistently taste a difference in a 1 degree change is well confirmation of how temp stable the machine is off set calculations aside. My II was set about 9.75 and I turned it down to dead on 9.0 and prefer the results across the board but Redbird currently being the "House Blend" so i brew more of that than others.

I am curious if your brew pressure is the same through a puck and on a blind? Mine has always been dead on the same at least on the machine gauge. I have read others who say theirs change a bit.

Posted March 6, 2013 link


Yes, the difference in the taste does make feel better when I lower the temp in the PID.  But reading some owners' feedback
on this and their temp is pretty dead on also makes me wonder why.  

The pressure of a blind shot is right @ the presure I set which is a bit over 9bars (say 9.1bars).
The pressure of puck shot is initially @ 9.1bars right after I flip the lever but then move to 9.5bars and stop at it.
All of the readings are fromthe machine gauge.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Mar 7, 2013, 1:49am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

gearbolt Said:

The pressure of a blind shot is right @ the presure I set which is a bit over 9bars (say 9.1bars).
The pressure of puck shot is initially @ 9.1bars right after I flip the lever but then move to 9.5bars and stop at it.
All of the readings are fromthe machine gauge.

Posted March 6, 2013 link

It's because of water expansion, re the link I sent you earlier.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,153
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Mar 7, 2013, 7:18am
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

I have Dave's recommended settings on my machine the last 2 days that is in 15amp mode, tank, and both boilers on. The setting seems much more stable when the steam boiler is off, when it is on I get a 2f overshoot regularly and a -1 drop below the set point which is about the same as the default setting for me except the recovery time from the overshoot seems quicker. I plan on plumbing in and going to 20 amp in the near future.

I am going to try a different setting from the page Dave linked today and see what that does. I wonder if there are not some tweaks we have to do for our current? What the heck I am hopefully learning. Just noticed there is more to that article, scroll down and there is one US setting for both boilers on, trying it today.
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Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Thu Mar 7, 2013, 2:32pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

I have a version 2, so mine might not translate.  It is however one of the very last version 2's that Chris sold.  Its even got the red colored PID the duetto 3's have.

I haven't checked my PID settings.. I can if anyone would like.

Where I have my PID set, I will see it go 2F higher.  I always run with steam boiler on for the sake of keeping things consistent.  I turn it off when Im done, and on as Im setting up my scale and such.  I do see overshoot, usually no more then 2 degrees.  Sometimes 1F, and then as its the heater kicks on it drops 2F below, and then overshoots 2F from the setpoint.

At first I got worried/annoyed that the PID wasn't hella accurate like I wanted..  But then reading Rob had the same issues, and the post he made about talking to the techs at CCS and that, in a nutshell, don't worry about it.  What you set is you get.

So, I stopped worrying.  And for the most part Id say Im getting the temps I set on the PID, even though the display might show slightly otherwise.  1 degree changes are cleary noticeable, and blends are showing changes across a range of 4 degrees, with 2 or 3 settings all producing nice shots.  (So like if I bracket from 198 to 201, maybe only 201 is too hot, but 200, 199 and 198 all taste different, and good.  More body or more fruit, but all good.)



Ill be honest, Id really love to get some time with a Scace device, and Ive been meaning to email a friend and see if he has one and would be willing to let me borrow it, but I haven't wanted to bother him yet.  I could buy one, sure, and If I find my PID needs tuning, then the $300 some odd bucks would be more then worth it.  But what happens when I drop $300+ and find out my Duetto is stable as a damn rock?


Id love it if my PID always read either the temp I set, or one or two degrees lower when it was heating back up to my setpoint.  But it overshoots and drops below and blah blah blag... Like I said, I did what rob did, stopped worrying and just tasted the coffee.  So far, I think its pretty close to accurate.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,153
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Mar 7, 2013, 5:30pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

I have been using the PID setting posted from a US user from the link Dave posted, I am really liking it.
P=1.3
I=0.06
D=1.5

This setting has been holding a +/- 1f all day, it is a little slow to recover after a shot but still plenty faster then I am.
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Italo2275
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat Mar 9, 2013, 2:35pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

Hi Dave,I have not touched mine from factory settings.my brew pressure goes to 10 bars, is that too high?how does this effect my shots.
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Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sat Mar 9, 2013, 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Help is needed for my Duetto 3
 

PID has no effect on brew pressure.  If you want to adjust brew pressure, you do so by adjusting a little nut on the pump.

10Bar is high, but not outrageous.  I actually used my Duetto at 10bar for first two-three weeks, because thats how Chris's guys set it up for me, and I didn't feel like taking the case off again.  So I figured ID try it out for a little while, then lower it.  Currently at ~8.75Bar.  Noticeably improvement without a doubt.  Smoother, Sweeter, Richer.  I can also get another day or two out of a coffee without that harsh bite creeping in so soon.

Lower it, see what you think, decide from there.  Unless you're like me, and will go through a 12oz bag in a session trying things out, give yourself a week at the new setting before you make any decisions.(Its not my normal routine to blow through a 12oz bag a day..  3lbs is about what I order per week, but every now and then I feel like playing around with some variables, and to do that, requires a bag or two extra of coffee :-)  )

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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