Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Mini Vivaldi II...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 3 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,971
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 5:17pm
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

germantownrob Said:

"Question about volumetric dosing?"

If the basket is not completely dry before dosing the next shot I find I get channeling from the edge of the basket, ie quicker second shot.

Posted March 3, 2013 link

Good call. However, we don't know if our OP is using a bottomless PF. If so, he hasn't reported channeling as yet.
Nor taste. I'd like to know which shot tastes better. If I missed that, my bad.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 5:34pm
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

IMAWriter Said:

Good call. However, we don't know if our OP is using a bottomless PF. If so, he hasn't reported channeling as yet.
Nor taste. I'd like to know which shot tastes better. If I missed that, my bad.

Posted March 3, 2013 link

Does it have the added preinfusion chamber?

Honestly this might be easily answered at the S1 cafe. http://s1cafe.com/ you have an excellent machine and should be having excellent results. Something seems off, sometimes its the operator, sometimes its the grinder, other times its the machine, that's just the nature of home espresso.

The solution is in eliminating the posiablities. Try a blind disk back flush before pulling your first shot. Try purging 1oz, 2oz of water before prepping first shot. Try purging more coffee through the grinder before the first shot, this isn't a Silvia anymore, maybe the spaz wants more consistency in grind and prep then Silvia needed to produce similar time and volume shots.  Personally I like weight, that pesky crema gets in the way of volume.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,971
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 5:44pm
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

germantownrob Said:

Does it have the added preinfusion chamber?

Honestly this might be easily answered at the S1 cafe. http://s1cafe.com/ you have an excellent machine and should be having excellent results. Something seems off, sometimes its the operator, sometimes its the grinder, other times its the machine, that's just the nature of home espresso.

The solution is in eliminating the posiablities. Try a blind disk back flush before pulling your first shot. Try purging 1oz, 2oz of water before prepping first shot. Try purging more coffee through the grinder before the first shot, this isn't a Silvia anymore, maybe the spaz wants more consistency in grind and prep then Silvia needed to produce similar time and volume shots.  Personally I like weight, that pesky crema gets in the way of volume.

Posted March 3, 2013 link

Great resource. Funny, I mentioned that resource (not by exact name) on HB yesterday.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
SISC
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Mar 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Sullivans Island
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

germantownrob Said:

"Question about volumetric dosing?"

If the basket is not completely dry before dosing the next shot I find I get channeling from the edge of the basket, ie quicker second shot.

Posted March 3, 2013 link

I am using bottomless.  

This may be the most helpful comment yet.  Channeling is more prevalent on the second shot.  I dry the basket, but maybe I am not getting it COMPLETELY dry.  I'll be more careful with that.

Other questions have been answered.

I haven't been able to register at S1cafe.com.  They have a "test" where you have to drag certain items from one column to another, and for some reason my computer or browser will not let me drag and drop on their registration page.  

With all due respect to folks, the grinder comments don't seem to apply.  I grind both shots at the same time and start with a "clean" grinder (see earlier comments).  If sometimes one shot was better and sometimes the other shot was better, I could possibly see some logic there.  But it is ALWAYS the first shot that is slower/less volume.  The variable is not in the grind.  Wet basket, different temperature of the portafilter, different pressure from the machine, etc are all possible variables, but not the grind.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JohnLyn
Senior Member
JohnLyn
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Golden, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 11:36pm
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

SISC Said:

2) I didn't have this problem with the same grinder, same procedure  and a Silvia. So what kind of "thing"?

Posted March 3, 2013 link

OK, so you are convinced that it is a V2 problem. Got it. check this site out, mine it and post on it: here

There are some super helpful and knowledgable people there that know the V2 literally inside and out. See if advice on that issue comes up.

Where did you buy it, is ti still under warranty and what are they saying? call them and see if they can help. You could also call CCS.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JohnLyn
Senior Member
JohnLyn
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Golden, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 11:44pm
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

My bad for reposting the S1 cafe. I didn't realize that there was a third page until after I posted. my apologies. The site is excellent though...
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,112
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 1:20am
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

You grind both shots at the same time?

Problem solved.

Adding enough beans for two shots is enough to have a small column of beans above the burrs.  In effect, the grind setting is changed when doing so.  For example, the is a noticeably different grind setting required to achieve the same shot when you are single dosing, or using a hopper full of beans.  The column of beans above the burrs provide a little bit of weight which helps feed the beans into the burrs, AND, there is no "popcorning".


If you're adding the beans for both shots at the same time, this is the "issue".  The first shots worth of beans are ground through with a second shots worth adding slight bit of weight to them, and preventing them from popcorning.  Then, as the second shots worth of beans make their way into the burrs, they have nothing above them, which also allows them to popcorn.  Effectively, the second shots worth of beans require a slightly finer grinder than the first shots worth.  Which is why your first shot runs slow and your second runs fast.


Try adding only enough beans for one shot at a time.  Also, I still suggest grinding 2-3grams and tossing them before you start prepping your shot, because as diligent as one tries to be, there is always slight amounts of grounds left in a grider..  andlike I said earlier, as little as .2grams can affect shot time.  By doing the quick purge, and adding only the beans you need for one shot at a time, you will see perfect consistency shot to shot.  Might need to be changed from the current grind setting to get the shot running right, but the consistency will be there.  Then once you make any needed adjustments you'll be on point.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
back to top
 View Profile Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Link to this post
JPF
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jun 2010
Posts: 223
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivaldi, Pre-millenium...
Grinder: Dosered SJ, Resurrected...
Vac Pot: Yama Siphon
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: Behmor, Poppery I
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 7:21am
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

Jmanespresso Said:

You grind both shots at the same time?

Problem solved.

Adding enough beans for two shots is enough to have a small column of beans above the burrs.  In effect, the grind setting is changed when doing so.  For example, the is a noticeably different grind setting required to achieve the same shot when you are single dosing, or using a hopper full of beans.  The column of beans above the burrs provide a little bit of weight which helps feed the beans into the burrs, AND, there is no "popcorning".

Posted March 4, 2013 link

+1

If you are adding all beans for both shots at the same, that's definitely it.

 
Living the caffeinated life.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Contrabass_Bry
Senior Member
Contrabass_Bry
Joined: 3 Jan 2013
Posts: 19
Location: Omaha
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: OE Pharos
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 7:49am
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

Forgive my ignorance, but  if he ground both double shots worth of beans (36g approx) all at once, wouldn't the action of the doser vanes mix the potentially inconsitent grinds together (bringing the shots closer to parity)?

Now certainly, that volume of grounds doesn't make much of a mark in a doser, but I would think that they would mix a bit.

Unless he is dosing as he's grinding during the first shot OR he stops the grinder between 1st and 2nd shots (but from the wording, it sounds like he grinds them simultaneously.)

More detail, please.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
SISC
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Mar 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Sullivans Island
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Sat Mar 16, 2013, 4:47pm
Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
 

Jmanespresso Said:

You grind both shots at the same time?

Problem solved.

Adding enough beans for two shots is enough to have a small column of beans above the burrs.  In effect, the grind setting is changed when doing so.  For example, the is a noticeably different grind setting required to achieve the same shot when you are single dosing, or using a hopper full of beans.  The column of beans above the burrs provide a little bit of weight which helps feed the beans into the burrs, AND, there is no "popcorning".


If you're adding the beans for both shots at the same time, this is the "issue".  The first shots worth of beans are ground through with a second shots worth adding slight bit of weight to them, and preventing them from popcorning.  Then, as the second shots worth of beans make their way into the burrs, they have nothing above them, which also allows them to popcorn.  Effectively, the second shots worth of beans require a slightly finer grinder than the first shots worth.  Which is why your first shot runs slow and your second runs fast.


Try adding only enough beans for one shot at a time.  Also, I still suggest grinding 2-3grams and tossing them before you start prepping your shot, because as diligent as one tries to be, there is always slight amounts of grounds left in a grider..  andlike I said earlier, as little as .2grams can affect shot time.  By doing the quick purge, and adding only the beans you need for one shot at a time, you will see perfect consistency shot to shot.  Might need to be changed from the current grind setting to get the shot running right, but the consistency will be there.  Then once you make any needed adjustments you'll be on point.

Posted March 4, 2013 link

Just getting back to this issue after two busy weeks at work.

Interesting theory, and one definitely worth working though.  My immediate thought was the same as posted by Contrabass_Bry, but the doser does not completely mix the grind.  It makes sense that the burrs are "coated" with the ground beans as grinding progresses.

This may also explain why the coffee at so many coffee shops is so mediocre to bad, when they have good equipment and good beans.

Stand by for empirical observations.......
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 3 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Mini Vivaldi II...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Cafe Espresso Machines
Video reviews, nationwide installation, leasing options... Nuova Simonelli, Rancilio, La Marzocco.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.511658906937)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+