Good call. However, we don't know if our OP is using a bottomless PF. If so, he hasn't reported channeling as yet. Nor taste. I'd like to know which shot tastes better. If I missed that, my bad.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 6:34pm Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
IMAWriter Said:
Good call. However, we don't know if our OP is using a bottomless PF. If so, he hasn't reported channeling as yet. Nor taste. I'd like to know which shot tastes better. If I missed that, my bad.
Honestly this might be easily answered at the S1 cafe. http://s1cafe.com/ you have an excellent machine and should be having excellent results. Something seems off, sometimes its the operator, sometimes its the grinder, other times its the machine, that's just the nature of home espresso.
The solution is in eliminating the posiablities. Try a blind disk back flush before pulling your first shot. Try purging 1oz, 2oz of water before prepping first shot. Try purging more coffee through the grinder before the first shot, this isn't a Silvia anymore, maybe the spaz wants more consistency in grind and prep then Silvia needed to produce similar time and volume shots. Personally I like weight, that pesky crema gets in the way of volume.
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 6:44pm Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
germantownrob Said:
Does it have the added preinfusion chamber?
Honestly this might be easily answered at the S1 cafe. http://s1cafe.com/ you have an excellent machine and should be having excellent results. Something seems off, sometimes its the operator, sometimes its the grinder, other times its the machine, that's just the nature of home espresso.
The solution is in eliminating the posiablities. Try a blind disk back flush before pulling your first shot. Try purging 1oz, 2oz of water before prepping first shot. Try purging more coffee through the grinder before the first shot, this isn't a Silvia anymore, maybe the spaz wants more consistency in grind and prep then Silvia needed to produce similar time and volume shots. Personally I like weight, that pesky crema gets in the way of volume.
This may be the most helpful comment yet. Channeling is more prevalent on the second shot. I dry the basket, but maybe I am not getting it COMPLETELY dry. I'll be more careful with that.
Other questions have been answered.
I haven't been able to register at S1cafe.com. They have a "test" where you have to drag certain items from one column to another, and for some reason my computer or browser will not let me drag and drop on their registration page.
With all due respect to folks, the grinder comments don't seem to apply. I grind both shots at the same time and start with a "clean" grinder (see earlier comments). If sometimes one shot was better and sometimes the other shot was better, I could possibly see some logic there. But it is ALWAYS the first shot that is slower/less volume. The variable is not in the grind. Wet basket, different temperature of the portafilter, different pressure from the machine, etc are all possible variables, but not the grind.
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 2:20am Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
You grind both shots at the same time?
Problem solved.
Adding enough beans for two shots is enough to have a small column of beans above the burrs. In effect, the grind setting is changed when doing so. For example, the is a noticeably different grind setting required to achieve the same shot when you are single dosing, or using a hopper full of beans. The column of beans above the burrs provide a little bit of weight which helps feed the beans into the burrs, AND, there is no "popcorning".
If you're adding the beans for both shots at the same time, this is the "issue". The first shots worth of beans are ground through with a second shots worth adding slight bit of weight to them, and preventing them from popcorning. Then, as the second shots worth of beans make their way into the burrs, they have nothing above them, which also allows them to popcorn. Effectively, the second shots worth of beans require a slightly finer grinder than the first shots worth. Which is why your first shot runs slow and your second runs fast.
Try adding only enough beans for one shot at a time. Also, I still suggest grinding 2-3grams and tossing them before you start prepping your shot, because as diligent as one tries to be, there is always slight amounts of grounds left in a grider.. andlike I said earlier, as little as .2grams can affect shot time. By doing the quick purge, and adding only the beans you need for one shot at a time, you will see perfect consistency shot to shot. Might need to be changed from the current grind setting to get the shot running right, but the consistency will be there. Then once you make any needed adjustments you'll be on point.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
JPF Senior Member Joined: 3 Jun 2010 Posts: 207 Location: NJ Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Mini Vivaldi, Pre-millenium... Grinder: Dosered SJ, Resurrected... Vac Pot: Yama Siphon Drip: Technivorm Roaster: Behmor, Poppery I
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 8:21am Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
Jmanespresso Said:
You grind both shots at the same time?
Problem solved.
Adding enough beans for two shots is enough to have a small column of beans above the burrs. In effect, the grind setting is changed when doing so. For example, the is a noticeably different grind setting required to achieve the same shot when you are single dosing, or using a hopper full of beans. The column of beans above the burrs provide a little bit of weight which helps feed the beans into the burrs, AND, there is no "popcorning".
Contrabass_Bry Senior Member Joined: 3 Jan 2013 Posts: 19 Location: Omaha Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES900XL Grinder: OE Pharos
Posted Mon Mar 4, 2013, 8:49am Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
Forgive my ignorance, but if he ground both double shots worth of beans (36g approx) all at once, wouldn't the action of the doser vanes mix the potentially inconsitent grinds together (bringing the shots closer to parity)?
Now certainly, that volume of grounds doesn't make much of a mark in a doser, but I would think that they would mix a bit.
Unless he is dosing as he's grinding during the first shot OR he stops the grinder between 1st and 2nd shots (but from the wording, it sounds like he grinds them simultaneously.)
SISC Junior Member Joined: 3 Mar 2013 Posts: 10 Location: Sullivans Island Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Mini Vivaldi II Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Sat Mar 16, 2013, 5:47pm Subject: Re: Mini Vivaldi II Consistently Inconsistent
Jmanespresso Said:
You grind both shots at the same time?
Problem solved.
Adding enough beans for two shots is enough to have a small column of beans above the burrs. In effect, the grind setting is changed when doing so. For example, the is a noticeably different grind setting required to achieve the same shot when you are single dosing, or using a hopper full of beans. The column of beans above the burrs provide a little bit of weight which helps feed the beans into the burrs, AND, there is no "popcorning".
If you're adding the beans for both shots at the same time, this is the "issue". The first shots worth of beans are ground through with a second shots worth adding slight bit of weight to them, and preventing them from popcorning. Then, as the second shots worth of beans make their way into the burrs, they have nothing above them, which also allows them to popcorn. Effectively, the second shots worth of beans require a slightly finer grinder than the first shots worth. Which is why your first shot runs slow and your second runs fast.
Try adding only enough beans for one shot at a time. Also, I still suggest grinding 2-3grams and tossing them before you start prepping your shot, because as diligent as one tries to be, there is always slight amounts of grounds left in a grider.. andlike I said earlier, as little as .2grams can affect shot time. By doing the quick purge, and adding only the beans you need for one shot at a time, you will see perfect consistency shot to shot. Might need to be changed from the current grind setting to get the shot running right, but the consistency will be there. Then once you make any needed adjustments you'll be on point.
Just getting back to this issue after two busy weeks at work.
Interesting theory, and one definitely worth working though. My immediate thought was the same as posted by Contrabass_Bry, but the doser does not completely mix the grind. It makes sense that the burrs are "coated" with the ground beans as grinding progresses.
This may also explain why the coffee at so many coffee shops is so mediocre to bad, when they have good equipment and good beans.
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