Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 11:43am Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
I think it comes down to convenience since the internals are the same.
What's more important to you, the ability to grind directly into your basket, or having a precise weight at the press of a button? I bought my plain Vario just before the W was introduced, but I would go for the plain Jane model today if I did have a choice.
Because of the shape of the BDB's basket, you actually need to grind for volume rather than weight. Different roasts have different densities, so a consistent weight won't give you a consistent volume from bean to bean.
Speaking of the BDB, my replacement machine is working great, and seems a bit tighter than the old one. Coffee tastes the same.
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 3:30pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
BubbaDude Said:
What's more important to you, the ability to grind directly into your basket, or having a precise weight at the press of a button? I bought my plain Vario just before the W was introduced, but I would go for the plain Jane model today if I did have a choice.
+1 the bolded part. Since I also weigh my extractions, I need a scale for that anyway. The extra $100+ for a built-in scale does not seem like the most bang for the buck to me. If my regular Vario ever craps out, I'd still get another regular Vario and not look back.
As for Varios in general (no matter which version), the only thing I'd replace mine with is a titan-class conical, and there's only a couple of those that i know of that are a realistic consideration for single-dose-types like me.
AlexKilpatrick Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Austin
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 3:47pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
BubbaDude Said:
Because of the shape of the BDB's basket, you actually need to grind for volume rather than weight. Different roasts have different densities, so a consistent weight won't give you a consistent volume from bean to bean.
What does the shape of the basket have to do with it? It seems like you either need to weigh, or you need to use volume. But I can't see why the shape of a basket makes any difference in choosing whether to use volume or weight.
I don't know the right answer myself. But a lot of people here seem to swear by weighing.
From my personal limited experience, the time for the shot (in effect, the fineness of the grind) seems to dominate almost everything else. I can't taste any real difference in a few grams.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 4:04pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
AlexKilpatrick Said:
What does the shape of the basket have to do with it? It seems like you either need to weigh, or you need to use volume. But I can't see why the shape of a basket makes any difference in choosing whether to use volume or weight.
I don't know the right answer myself. But a lot of people here seem to swear by weighing.
From my personal limited experience, the time for the shot (in effect, the fineness of the grind) seems to dominate almost everything else. I can't taste any real difference in a few grams.
While adjusting temperature allows for dealing with bitter or sour to get to the flavor of the shot from the bean adjusting grind and dose allows to adjust the flavor balance of the shot from a bean. A small weight adjustment may go unnoticed but paired with a grind adjustment can make a big difference, from sink shot to great shot. Everyday I circle around the bulls eye for the shot of the days tuning in to get to the center. This is when the Vario-W saves time, adjust, grind, pour in basket, no more fine tuning a PF on a scale to get the dose I am after.
Wow. Without having to read backwards, did Breville explain why they went with the sloped baskets? I did read that most folks are very happy with the OEM baskets. Just curious.
AlexKilpatrick Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Austin
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 10:07pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
IMAWriter Said:
Wow. Without having to read backwards, did Breville explain why they went with the sloped baskets? I did read that most folks are very happy with the OEM baskets. Just curious.
I wonder if it helps with side channeling? Maybe a sloped basket allows the grinds to be more distributed to the sides when tamping? Not sure if that would work, but it seems plausible. Or it helps with water flow?
They did a lot of research on the machine's design. I suspect they had a good reason for it.
JohnLyn Senior Member Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 230 Location: Golden, BC, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy Grinder: Vario Drip: Bonavita Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 10:55pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
AlexKilpatrick Said:
I wonder if it helps with side channeling? Maybe a sloped basket allows the grinds to be more distributed to the sides when tamping? Not sure if that would work, but it seems plausible. Or it helps with water flow?
They did a lot of research on the machine's design. I suspect they had a good reason for it.
I'd asked that question a while back and this was phil's response:
mcknightp Said:
Well the baskets were already "off-tool" when I started with the company 2 years ago, so there was no plan to re-tool those. If I'd been able to choose a design back then, I would have gone with a Synesso style ridgeless design. But there may be something in the skunk-works, but that's more than 6 months away.
The current stock baskets don't need any precise dose to work. I set dose where the coffee tastes the best. I have to say I don't weigh it, but it would be in the range of 18-21g. Fresher coffee needs a bit more head space & older coffee needs less. I think some users are trying to hold dose at a certain weight (more likely height in the basket) cause they see this as to curing pucks sticking to the dispersion screen. Frankly I don't care about the puck sticking, I'm far more concerned about the taste of the espresso.
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 11:11pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
AlexKilpatrick Said:
I wonder if it helps with side channeling? Maybe a sloped basket allows the grinds to be more distributed to the sides when tamping? Not sure if that would work, but it seems plausible. Or it helps with water flow?
They did a lot of research on the machine's design. I suspect they had a good reason for it.
This is just a guess, but it's probably easier to change the sloped basket than one with straight sides. The machine ships with four baskets so they must think you're going to change them all the time. Since the spring in the PF is so aggressive, it's a chore to push a straight basket (like a VST) into the PF.
This is my least-favorite feature of the BDB.
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
AlexKilpatrick Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Austin
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 11:36pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
BubbaDude Said:
This is just a guess, but it's probably easier to change the sloped basket than one with straight sides. The machine ships with four baskets so they must think you're going to change them all the time. Since the spring in the PF is so aggressive, it's a chore to push a straight basket (like a VST) into the PF.
I can't imagine anyone is switching back and forth from pressurized to non-pressurized baskets. :-) And I find the spring incredibly tight. I always have to hunt for something to pry out the basket with.
My least-favorite is the #%^#* auto-on timer. It is just all wrong. First, it doesn't stay on long enough. I think the default is an hour? My morning schedule can vary by as much as 2 hours. Second, I don't even want it. I would love it if it just turned on and warmed up automatically when plugged in. Then, I could use my own external timer to set up multiple schedules - morning, afternoon, different schedules on weekends, etc.
When my warranty runs out I am going to definitely spend some time hacking this. I bet you could hack an external timer into the on/off switch pretty easily.
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