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Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
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JonR10
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JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 10,376
Location: Houston, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: E61 Legend, Livietta,...
Grinder: Robur, B-Vario-W
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Roaster: 1-lb US Roaster, Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:50am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

carz07 Said:

hmmm if i do lower dose like 18g with finer grind, i can still maintain the same pour rate as with a 19g and a courser grind right?

Posted February 23, 2013 link

Yes.  This is what we call "exploring the extraction space".  
You can change grind, change dose, change temp, change time.  It's kinda like a 4D matrix, with all variables related.

carz07 Said:

dry is 19g and 38g wet at 30sec - is this underextracted?

Posted February 23, 2013 link

Shot ratio is not a measure of extraction efficiency.  
Is the shot thick and creamy or thin and watery, or maybe muddy?


carz07 Said:

roast too light for the bean - the roast is ok

Posted February 23, 2013 link

How do you know?  
Have you compared this same bean at different roast levels and found the current roast optimal?

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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BubbaDude
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BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 11:33am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

carz07 Said:

not dark and oily, i dont know if i get it right but full city sometimes full city +
but if i extend pull time it goes beyond the 36g wet

Posted February 23, 2013 link

That's OK, 2:1 is just a guideline, not a rule. Like Jon says, you've got 4 variables to play with, so experiment.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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carz07
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carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 3:50pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

JonR10 Said:

Yes.  This is what we call "exploring the extraction space".  
You can change grind, change dose, change temp, change time.  It's kinda like a 4D matrix, with all variables related.


Shot ratio is not a measure of extraction efficiency.  
Is the shot thick and creamy or thin and watery, or maybe muddy?



How do you know?  
Have you compared this same bean at different roast levels and found the current roast optimal?

Posted February 23, 2013 link

ok i will try exploring the extraction space

the shot is thick and creamy

the roaster have tested different roast for this bean and this bean and particular roast suits espresso. we had beans that were good at light roast and was meant for manual brewing

 
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michaelgo
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Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 104
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 900XL
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 4:09pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

So glad to see this thread back on track.  

Question:  I've seen lots of mentions of blonding and stopping the shot at that point.  Is color a consideration for the length of shot?  I've had my BDB for close to a year now (3rd machine actually) and while I get good shots and have played with dose and temp, I'm still not getting great.  So is there something of a clue in color that I can use as a gauge?  Yes, I take notes but can't say that all things being equal, my taste is fine enough.  Oh, and I did replace my SmartGrinder with a Vario a couple of months ago, that was a difference I could taste.

Michael
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AlexKilpatrick
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Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 117
Location: Austin

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 7:57pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Blonding seems to be very subjective.  I have seen it described as when the shot turns "watery" Not when it turns yellow, but more when it starts to take on the consistency of water.  

Personally, I can almost predict the quality of the shot by looking at the crema.  If it is a uniform blond color, it will either be so-so or bad.  If it has a bunch of different colors, plus some dark brown areas (mottled), it has been universally good.

I have had better luck with shots when I stop them at blonding than when I stop them at some preset volume.
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dagoat
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 320
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 8:32pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

AlexKilpatrick Said:

Personally, I can almost predict the quality of the shot by looking at the crema.  If it is a uniform blond color, it will either be so-so or bad.  If it has a bunch of different colors, plus some dark brown areas (mottled), it has been universally good.

Posted February 23, 2013 link

Espresso itself is almost completely subjective.  It is also full of variables (which is why some of us weigh our doses and extractions, and use the AWESOME temperature control of the BDB... to eliminate three of them).  But back to the subjectivity of it all, I have recently been an acolyte of the "I don't like crema" movement.  Not that I have any problem getting it:  I have a great machine, a great grinder, and always use fresh beans... I get plenty of crema.  Lately, I've been waiting until the crema goes flat before drinking it, or spooning it carefully off the top and throwing it out before drinking.

The seminal, I don't like crema video

The seminal, I don't like crema, HB thread

Food for thought, eh?  Basically, you _should_ do all the things it takes to get good crema, in order to get good espresso.  BUT the crema itself may (subjectively) actually detract from the taste of the final beverage.  For the most part, it does to me... so I get rid of it.

-Peter
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,378
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
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Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 8:47pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Amen to that, Peter

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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AlexKilpatrick
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Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 117
Location: Austin

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 9:02pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

dagoat Said:

Food for thought, eh?  Basically, you _should_ do all the things it takes to get good crema, in order to get good espresso.  BUT the crema itself may (subjectively) actually detract from the taste of the final beverage.  For the most part, it does to me... so I get rid of it.

-Peter

Posted February 23, 2013 link

Based upon a thread here, I started stirring the crema in to the shot.  It made the shot taste a lot better than drinking it with the crema on top.  Drinking it without stirring was a little overpowering, although I do experiment with drinking them as-is from time to time.

I never thought of trying to get rid of it entirely.  I will try that next.
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AlexKilpatrick
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Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 117
Location: Austin

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:02pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Can anyone shed some light about the required time to "properly" heat up the BDB?  I generally will pull a shot as soon as the machine is warmed up according to the display - 5 minutes or so.  I have also made shots when the machine had warmed up for an hour.  I don't think I can tell the difference, but I haven't done any exhaustive tests.

Does anyone else warm the machine up for a longer time?
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carz07
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carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:15pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

AlexKilpatrick Said:

Can anyone shed some light about the required time to "properly" heat up the BDB?  I generally will pull a shot as soon as the machine is warmed up according to the display - 5 minutes or so.  I have also made shots when the machine had warmed up for an hour.  I don't think I can tell the difference, but I haven't done any exhaustive tests.

Does anyone else warm the machine up for a longer time?

Posted February 23, 2013 link

hi alex, 1hour is a pretty long time. perhaps you need to have it checked. I havent really took record of the time but around 5mins or something depending on its existing heat. Like in the morning i pull a shot and then turn the machine off but after an hour or few minutes i turn it on to pull another, it starts its heat up base on the existing temp so its faster. But never an hour even from total overnight cooldown

 
Travel the world with a cup of coffee
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