Yes. This is what we call "exploring the extraction space". You can change grind, change dose, change temp, change time. It's kinda like a 4D matrix, with all variables related.
carz07 Said:
dry is 19g and 38g wet at 30sec - is this underextracted?
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 3:50pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
JonR10 Said:
Yes. This is what we call "exploring the extraction space". You can change grind, change dose, change temp, change time. It's kinda like a 4D matrix, with all variables related.
Shot ratio is not a measure of extraction efficiency. Is the shot thick and creamy or thin and watery, or maybe muddy?
How do you know? Have you compared this same bean at different roast levels and found the current roast optimal?
the roaster have tested different roast for this bean and this bean and particular roast suits espresso. we had beans that were good at light roast and was meant for manual brewing
michaelgo Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2012 Posts: 91 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville 900XL Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 4:09pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
So glad to see this thread back on track.
Question: I've seen lots of mentions of blonding and stopping the shot at that point. Is color a consideration for the length of shot? I've had my BDB for close to a year now (3rd machine actually) and while I get good shots and have played with dose and temp, I'm still not getting great. So is there something of a clue in color that I can use as a gauge? Yes, I take notes but can't say that all things being equal, my taste is fine enough. Oh, and I did replace my SmartGrinder with a Vario a couple of months ago, that was a difference I could taste.
AlexKilpatrick Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Austin
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 7:57pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
Blonding seems to be very subjective. I have seen it described as when the shot turns "watery" Not when it turns yellow, but more when it starts to take on the consistency of water.
Personally, I can almost predict the quality of the shot by looking at the crema. If it is a uniform blond color, it will either be so-so or bad. If it has a bunch of different colors, plus some dark brown areas (mottled), it has been universally good.
I have had better luck with shots when I stop them at blonding than when I stop them at some preset volume.
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 8:32pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
AlexKilpatrick Said:
Personally, I can almost predict the quality of the shot by looking at the crema. If it is a uniform blond color, it will either be so-so or bad. If it has a bunch of different colors, plus some dark brown areas (mottled), it has been universally good.
Espresso itself is almost completely subjective. It is also full of variables (which is why some of us weigh our doses and extractions, and use the AWESOME temperature control of the BDB... to eliminate three of them). But back to the subjectivity of it all, I have recently been an acolyte of the "I don't like crema" movement. Not that I have any problem getting it: I have a great machine, a great grinder, and always use fresh beans... I get plenty of crema. Lately, I've been waiting until the crema goes flat before drinking it, or spooning it carefully off the top and throwing it out before drinking.
Food for thought, eh? Basically, you _should_ do all the things it takes to get good crema, in order to get good espresso. BUT the crema itself may (subjectively) actually detract from the taste of the final beverage. For the most part, it does to me... so I get rid of it.
AlexKilpatrick Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Austin
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 9:02pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
dagoat Said:
Food for thought, eh? Basically, you _should_ do all the things it takes to get good crema, in order to get good espresso. BUT the crema itself may (subjectively) actually detract from the taste of the final beverage. For the most part, it does to me... so I get rid of it.
Based upon a thread here, I started stirring the crema in to the shot. It made the shot taste a lot better than drinking it with the crema on top. Drinking it without stirring was a little overpowering, although I do experiment with drinking them as-is from time to time.
I never thought of trying to get rid of it entirely. I will try that next.
AlexKilpatrick Senior Member Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Austin
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Bairtiza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:02pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
Can anyone shed some light about the required time to "properly" heat up the BDB? I generally will pull a shot as soon as the machine is warmed up according to the display - 5 minutes or so. I have also made shots when the machine had warmed up for an hour. I don't think I can tell the difference, but I haven't done any exhaustive tests.
Does anyone else warm the machine up for a longer time?
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 10:15pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
AlexKilpatrick Said:
Can anyone shed some light about the required time to "properly" heat up the BDB? I generally will pull a shot as soon as the machine is warmed up according to the display - 5 minutes or so. I have also made shots when the machine had warmed up for an hour. I don't think I can tell the difference, but I haven't done any exhaustive tests.
Does anyone else warm the machine up for a longer time?
hi alex, 1hour is a pretty long time. perhaps you need to have it checked. I havent really took record of the time but around 5mins or something depending on its existing heat. Like in the morning i pull a shot and then turn the machine off but after an hour or few minutes i turn it on to pull another, it starts its heat up base on the existing temp so its faster. But never an hour even from total overnight cooldown
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