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Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
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john_ertw
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Quickmill Vetrano
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 9:18am
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

I have been wondering the same thing.  I'm finding that I get better taste at 20-22 seconds from pump start than I do at 25-30 seconds.  With the longer "ideal" time my shots are bitter.

I don't know why the "ideal" settings make worse coffee, but every time I try a finer grind I regret it.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,499
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 9:25am
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

22 from "pump start"  is pretty quick as you still have about 5 seconds for the coffee to start flowing, cutting your shot time to about 17 seconds.

 
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,759
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, 2 Macap M4s, OE...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 9:29am
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

calblacksmith Said:

22 from "pump start"  is pretty quick as you still have about 5 seconds for the coffee to start flowing, cutting your shot time to about 17 seconds.

Posted February 22, 2013 link

agreed, but one still has to go with taste.  I'd add to this, that if one does want to lengthen their shot time and still have what they consider a blanced extraction, they could updose at the same grind or grind finer and downdose slightly.

btw, I hate the autocorrect screw ups too :)

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,290
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 10:05am
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

rhetorically speaking, if you like espresso that takes 15 seconds from "pump on" then fine, BUT, how will you know if that is the best espresso you can make unless you experiment with other doses, grinds, and extraction times? If you are not always searching for "better" then why take on the task of espresso at home when you can just open a jar of "freeze-dried crystals" or a big can of "mountain grown, it's the richest kind"?

 
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,225
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 10:49am
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

john_ertw Said:

I have been wondering the same thing.  I'm finding that I get better taste at 20-22 seconds from pump start than I do at 25-30 seconds.  With the longer "ideal" time my shots are bitter.

I don't know why the "ideal" settings make worse coffee, but every time I try a finer grind I regret it.

Posted February 22, 2013 link

That would taste really under-extracted to me, been there done that lol...but if it's what you like then go for it. With pre-infusion set on my machine for 2 seconds and another 2 for wait, I aim for about 25-30 seconds extraction from first drip.

Then again look at SCG videos, so many where their shots from first drip are like 15 seconds and they like them, look like gushers to me though lol
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Markarian
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Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 652
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:10pm
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

The 30 second rule really seems to be a home barista number by what I've seen. In almost every (admittedly mediocre) cafe I've been to, the shot times are about 20-23 seconds from when they hit the button for the pump. And I'll also admit that SCG in their demos seem like they couldn't care less about shot time, but they use expensive beans, which probably make up for the shorter extraction times. On mine, I generally am at about 24-25 seconds from pump start to 45-50ml before it begins to blond and I cut it off. Does that sound about right?
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 2,973
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:34pm
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

It is about right.  I aim for 27 from pump start.  I normally hit it but I use the same beans for about 2 months so I have consistency with the beans.

 
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,759
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, 2 Macap M4s, OE...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 1:01pm
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

Markarian Said:

The 30 second rule really seems to be a home barista number by what I've seen.

Posted February 22, 2013 link

here, check this site out... http://www.espressoitaliano.org/index_en.asp?lang=en

 
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,290
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

The "rule" has been around a lot longer than HB. But for many years now it has often been said that it is not a "rule" but merely a guideline for beginners. "About 25 seconds and about 2 ounces" is often stated, and the "about" stressed. And as far as SCG goes, we have all seen and heard enough from them to know that while they may be good marketing folks and have a good selection, their prowess as gourmet baristas is highly questionable. A relatively-recently mentioned comparison between some machines was so laxckign in control and scientific approach that it was laughable.

 
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 841
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Roaster: Poppery
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 3:30pm
Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
 

frcn Said:

And as far as SCG goes, we have all seen and heard enough from them to know that while they may be good marketing folks and have a good selection, their prowess as gourmet baristas is highly questionable. A relatively-recently mentioned comparison between some machines was so laxckign in control and scientific approach that it was laughable.

Posted February 22, 2013 link

Thank you.

 
Yes I put the BDB and CC1 in the same class, yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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