"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,368 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013, 1:55pm Subject: Re: Whats the verdict on the Breville BES860XL Espresso Machine
Grinder, grinder, grinder. I don't like the grinder that close to the heat of the boiler.... and normally they don't put good grinders in combo machines. So, I would pass on it.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013, 3:21pm Subject: Re: Whats the verdict on the Breville BES860XL Espresso Machine
Coffeenoobie Said:
Grinder, grinder, grinder. I don't like the grinder that close to the heat of the boiler.... and normally they don't put good grinders in combo machines. So, I would pass on it.
That is a good point. I wonder if they insulate it from the boiler. I would think that they would have to otherwise they'd be cooking the beans.
Len
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013, 4:37pm Subject: Re: Whats the verdict on the Breville BES860XL Espresso Machine
I would bet that the grinder included would not be any better than your Breville Smart grinder - might even be closer to the wider stepped and less expensive Ikon model. If all you need is the espresso machine then maybe the $431 Infuser BES840XL model with it's higher wattage and gentle pre-infusion would be the better Breville choice.
Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013, 6:01pm Subject: Re: Whats the verdict on the Breville BES860XL Espresso Machine
EricBNC Said:
I would bet that the grinder included would not be any better than your Breville Smart grinder - might even be closer to the wider stepped and less expensive Ikon model. If all you need is the espresso machine then maybe the $431 Infuser BES840XL model with it's higher wattage and gentle pre-infusion would be the better Breville choice.
Hello Eric. So basically if you take the built in grinder out of the BES860XL you have a machine that is not as good as the 840XL? Pre-infusion is a plus in this case?
Thanks for the input.
Len
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013, 6:37pm Subject: Re: Whats the verdict on the Breville BES860XL Espresso Machine
I agree with the 840. The BIGGEST problem with the 860 is the grinder. It's a nightmare. It simply does not grind fine enough for the machine to build up good pressure with a normal amount of dose. I always had to over pack (~22g) to build the pressure and get a crema (which was my basis for even calling it espresso and not moka). I paid $400 for mine brand new and I would NOT do that again.
As a previous owner, I say get something else for sure. It sounds good until you live with it. I have a CC1 and a Vario now and it's a dream. It's a difference of night and day between it and the 860.
If cons make you decide easier:
-No water from the wand -Inconsistent temperatures and no control -53mm portafilter (dosing and tamping that portafilter is a joke) -The grinder was deafening -Difficult to consistently use single wall filters -Too much wasted coffee -Easy to burn milk -Small cup warmer -Descaling is iffy because no water thru wand -Water filters are expensive -Steam wand is a pain to use--there is no pressure control and it's either on/off so purging doesn't really exist on the machine
I miss some things like the drip tray, removable hopper, portafilter, and finger holes for the plug/steam wand but the quality of the drink and the effort required was just not worth it at all.
Posted Thu Feb 14, 2013, 7:08pm Subject: Re: Whats the verdict on the Breville BES860XL Espresso Machine
CoffeeRoastersClub Said:
Hello Eric. So basically if you take the built in grinder out of the BES860XL you have a machine that is not as good as the 840XL? Pre-infusion is a plus in this case?
The pre-infusion should be a plus you can taste and the hot water feature is nice too. It also has a smaller footprint. Although the machine spec's are very close for each, and you already have the grinder so extra features and a lower price would tip favor toward the Infuser model for me.
(Click for larger image)
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Fri Feb 15, 2013, 11:10am Subject: Re: Whats the verdict on the Breville BES860XL Espresso Machine
myallawala Said:
I agree with the 840. The BIGGEST problem with the 860 is the grinder. It's a nightmare. It simply does not grind fine enough for the machine to build up good pressure with a normal amount of dose. I always had to over pack (~22g) to build the pressure and get a crema (which was my basis for even calling it espresso and not moka). I paid $400 for mine brand new and I would NOT do that again.
As a previous owner, I say get something else for sure. It sounds good until you live with it. I have a CC1 and a Vario now and it's a dream. It's a difference of night and day between it and the 860.
If cons make you decide easier:
-No water from the wand -Inconsistent temperatures and no control -53mm portafilter (dosing and tamping that portafilter is a joke) -The grinder was deafening -Difficult to consistently use single wall filters -Too much wasted coffee -Easy to burn milk -Small cup warmer -Descaling is iffy because no water thru wand -Water filters are expensive -Steam wand is a pain to use--there is no pressure control and it's either on/off so purging doesn't really exist on the machine
I miss some things like the drip tray, removable hopper, portafilter, and finger holes for the plug/steam wand but the quality of the drink and the effort required was just not worth it at all.
Dont confuse the recent success of the Breville Dual Boiler, with the rest of thier machines. Breville hit the nail on the head with the dual boiler. No doubt. It fills a need in the market, bringing a dual boiler machine at the price point, AND, unlike most real espresso machines, its being sold where people shop, so it will spread to a wider audience. All great things.
Their other machines however, are horrifically terrible. Like REALLY BAD. They can't get hot enough, they don't produce steam pressure, temp surfing is useless.... ITs just a real nightmare. Before the BDB, there was one single answer to "what do you think of this breville machine"... RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. Thats still the answer, unless you're looking at the dual boiler. It amazes me its made by the same people that made the rest of thier machines, but, hey, is what it is.
For similar price point of the 860XL, check out the Lelit PL041TQE. You wont find a better deal. Built like a Silvia, with a PID from the factory, for under $600. Cant beat it. True, its still a single boiler, which means you'll be waiting to steam.. so if you plan to serve more then two people you need to look at higher price point machines, but if you're only going to be making two milk drinks at any one time, its workable.
The next step up from here, is one of three machines. Quickmill Silvano, Crossland CC1, or the ridiculously priced La Nouva Era Cuadra which is a freakin E61 Heat Exchanger for only $1K, which is just insane.(where was that deal when I was buying my first machine huh??!!) Something to seriously consider if you're in that price range and want to skip the single boilers.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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