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Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Trying to Decide...  
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 1:08pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Thanks Anthony.. I am right near Stony Brook. Centereach. There is one dealer selling La Valentina machines. I think he is in Nesconset. It is an HX machine though and feel I want a DB. Your comments made the most sense so far..
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 533
Location: High in the Rockies
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Look kids, this thread isn't about me, it's about PID'ed dual boiler espresso machines and I'm just trying to keep it on-topic. There's a crowd of old-time HX hounds who follow me around CG just to throw pot shots who have showed up on this thread making speeches about all kinds of off-topic stuff. Please ignore them.

Here's an observation: Ten years ago, the discussion about pro-sumer espresso machines was dominated by talk of boilers and pumps, but I'm willing to bet that ten years from now (or sooner) it will be dominated by talk of user interfaces and firmware.

This is the way things go in the 21st century world we live in.

Think of the R58 & QM67 vs. BDB discussion in those terms now and avoid the rush.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,294
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 1:20pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

My concern is that new people who come here and see Trying to Decide R58,Quickmill QM7,Breville DB and somehow think these three are even comparable.

It would be like seeing this Trying to Decide Ferrari 458 Italia, Lamborghini Aventador, Birkin Roadster Oh yeah baby give me that Birkin.


acasabia Said:

Long Island is a bad place for good coffee :( my years at Stony were marked by increased shipping costs on coffee (nearly twice what it was to Westchester) and always a few extra days on the truck..

That aside.
It honestly seems that Bubbadude is the only one here arguing for the BDB. the remaining majority, myself included, are more ambivalent or nervous about one issue or another. This was essentially the same situation I was in a few months ago, and I ended up quite happy with my e61. You definitely do not have to pull this machine apart every couple months. Perhaps if you really screw up something back-flushing, but even then as JonR said, it only takes 15 minutes. I can say however, that you will need to do some maintenence on all of these machines at one point or another, and being able to do so cheaply should be a major concern if you plan on owning the machine for more than a few years. Bubbadude stated earlier that his pretenses for buying the BDB included that in 5 or so years he would probably opt for a newer machine. I dont know about you, but I cant afford to drop a couple grand every five years on a coffee machine, and I would much rather buy one that doesn't need upgrading. These aren't handling complicated algorythyms or computations, it's a thermostat on a boiler and pump, lets not overcomplicate this. The argument that the BDB's techinical advancements will lead to consistently good shots has some merit, but not compared to the thousands of café's which rely on the barista's to know-how to set a grind, tamp, and pull. I know I can walk into Grumpy in NYC anytime of day, at any of their locations and get a great shot, not because of a PID or timed pre-infusion, (they have a rather basic synesso set-up) but because of fresh coffee, and proper training. Some would even argue a PID is more than necessary, I like it because it helps me know when the machine is properly warmed up but short of small adjustments between blends, it's not that critical.

In the case that you buy an e61 and five years from now you decide you want some electronic component present in the newest iMachines, you can always retrofit it. As bubbadude said, these machines often look like retrofitted HX machines. This isn't necessarily true, a lot of thought was placed on how these boilers feed each other, pressure balancing, and usually the effects of multiple thermosyphons on the temperature stability but, these machines are in fact easy to retrofit new components onto.

People similar to Bubbadude will exist for any machine you look at, this isn't a bad thing, nor is it a criticism. It shows that these people have taken the time to familiarize themselves thoroughly with their own equipment and for whatever reason are really dedicated to their "team." I proudly support e61's, in particular the Expobar, but I think because of the e61's diverse utilization we all fall into one group. 20 years from now we will still be trading replacement parts, customizations, and advice. I imagine the BDB users will have upgraded by then.

Posted January 30, 2013 link

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joatmon
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Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 346
Location: Greer, SC
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 1:27pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

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Iluvdabean
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Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,294
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 2:03pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

That is a really valid point and one which a buyer needs to consider. Are these machines easily repaired? Will parts be readily available ? Could it be they are expected to be viewed as a
sort of disposable machine ? You hear of people keeping their Italian machines for years and years. Its like they are made to be worked on and parts are common.
I think thats kind of the point that others were getting at. But I think this dead horse has been beat enough by me. Live and let live is my motto. So on that note im signing
off this thread. Bubbadude enjoy your machine and I say that in all honesty...we are coffee bean brothers.


joatmon Said:

Here's another observation: Ten years from now, my Lambro will be 64 years old and I'll still be pulling great shots from it.  BD will be on his _th BDB.

Posted January 30, 2013 link

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BubbaDude
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BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 533
Location: High in the Rockies
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 6:35pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Iluvdabean Said:

...we are coffee bean brothers.

Posted January 30, 2013 link

Indeed we are, and for me the bean is much more important than the machine. I'm a roaster, so I spend a lot more time worrying about which beans to buy, how to blend them, what roast level to cook them to, and what temp to pull them at.

To me, this whole espresso thing is about 90% bean and 10% machine. So I do have different requirements from a machine than the folks who buy pre-roasted beans. I simply want my espresso machine to be consistent and reliable. I don't want to spend a lot of time fiddling with it because my experiments are pretty much done by the time I blend, roast, grind, dose, and set my extraction temp. There's enough drama in that whole routine to satisfy me.

But I think the BDB looks cool too, in a modern technology way just not in a retro chic way. But that's how I roll.

I would be most happy if the espresso machine I buy in 2017 knows what beans I've got, how I roasted them, and what kind of shot I like, and then adjusts the temperature and pressure profile from beginning to end of the shot to pull out the flavors I like the most and suppress the others. If it could fix itself too, that would also be a plus, but I would settle for self-diagnosis and modular, snap-in repair parts.

Espresso has a long way to go yet.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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JonR10
Senior Member
JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 10,376
Location: Houston, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: E61 Legend, Livietta,...
Grinder: Robur, B-Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario Tabletop, Yama...
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: 1-lb US Roaster, Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 7:35pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

BubbaDude Said:

Indeed we are......

Posted January 30, 2013 link

This is easily my all-time favorite post from you, BD.
It's personal, honest, real, and positive....and without a trace of negativity towards others.  

Beautiful.  

Thank you for your contribution.

-Jon

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 533
Location: High in the Rockies
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

I had some really nice shots today from sassy little Colombian I've been seeing.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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acasabia
Senior Member
acasabia
Joined: 17 Oct 2008
Posts: 625
Location: Westchester, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus iv-p,...
Grinder: Quamar M80e, Hario slim
Vac Pot: Yama Vacpot, Aeropress,
Drip: french press
Roaster: hot-air popper.
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:38pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

BubbaDude Said:

I would be most happy if the espresso machine I buy in 2017 knows what beans I've got, how I roasted them, and what kind of shot I like, and then adjusts the temperature and pressure profile from beginning to end of the shot to pull out the flavors I like the most and suppress the others. If it could fix itself too, that would also be a plus, but I would settle for self-diagnosis and modular, snap-in repair parts.

Espresso has a long way to go yet.

Posted January 30, 2013 link

not too far off, the new marzocco's have a USB for sharing default preferences across machines. Buy a calibrated tamper and you're all set.

 
Anthony C

Currently pulling: Whatever Sweet Maria's sends me :D
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CSME9
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CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 291
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Mitica Top, Spaz...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Thu Jan 31, 2013, 4:25am
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

I have a business trip coming up next month to Seattle, i will have to visit SCG and test drive the R58, Izzo 3, and LaSpaziale and go from there. I kinda lucked out with this trip, as it sure makes it easier than buying sight un seen off the web and have to send it back-been there done that before.

WS
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