cuznvin Senior Member Joined: 6 Oct 2011 Posts: 456 Location: NY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:37pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
jwoodyu Said:
Honestly make the trip to Chris's show room, fondle QM, R58, Duettos, La Spaziales, a host of HX machines and everything else then pick one, drink coffee , be happy.
The maintenance on the E-61 is cake as JonR pointed out pages ago. If your having to lube it very often then your detergent back flushing it too frequently. After I back flush my lever will pick up a tiny little squeak but you have to really listen to hear it. If it does not go away in the first day or so the it is a 5 minute job to lube it. I can do the beat down clean up job on my Duetto (includes my pulling the screen and gasket twice cause I am freaky that way), grinder, bits and bobs and the counter in less than 30 minutes.
It is not as if you live in Little Rabbit Australia if you do need it serviced down the road.
Thanks.. I will have to check out one of the retailers showrooms. Believe it or not there are no retailers on Long Island. 200 miles to chris' from where I live. About 3.5 hours. Maybe Ill take a trip to Sharon Springs, Ny and then head over to Chris'. What part of Michigan are u in?
Italo2275 Senior Member Joined: 9 Jan 2013 Posts: 96 Location: Toronto Expertise: Just starting
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 8:55am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
Easy guys no need to get upset here. I think everyones input is good, at the end of the day people will make the choice bases on what they can afford and and what they are looking for. The BDB is not a bad machine and is the best for that price range. I have tried it out and was not crazy about it, but might be user error. I have read the forums and the video reviews and from what I gather tghat the E-61 machines do produce a better tasking espresso, so I might go wiht one of those. Not sure which ones yet but am going to try therm out this week at IDRINKCOFFE in Milton.
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:28am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
cuznvin Said:
Thanks for your comments. I was interested in the Vibiemme DD but a retailer I trust told me they may drop it due to issues with it. Plus I think it is even bigger than the Duetto..
Do you have any details about these issues? I have been researching all of these DB machines as well and had almost decided on the Vibiemme Double Domobar but if it is known to have any significant issues I will continue looking into the other machines. So far I haven't been able to find as much feedback on the Vibiemme as some of the other models like the R58 and Duetto.
cuznvin Senior Member Joined: 6 Oct 2011 Posts: 456 Location: NY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:48am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
DST Said:
Do you have any details about these issues? I have been researching all of these DB machines as well and had almost decided on the Vibiemme Double Domobar but if it is known to have any significant issues I will continue looking into the other machines. So far I haven't been able to find as much feedback on the Vibiemme as some of the other models like the R58 and Duetto.
MerleApAmber Senior Member Joined: 13 Nov 2012 Posts: 175 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES900 Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto Vac Pot: Yuma Drip: bah-humbug Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:49am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
I bought mine on Amazon dot com for 950'ish. Granted, it was holiday season. But I know for a fact that I have a new issue. (I'd previously purchased a used one through the Amazon Warehouse Deals outlet for 979 when the going rate was 1100. I returned the used for the new stock when the holiday season deal came up.) It is not surprising to me to hear people getting these Brevilles new for under a grand.
Okay, I guess I will keep looking a little longer before I pull the trigger. If I do go with the Vibiemme I will probably choose between Stefanos and 1st Line.
cuznvin Senior Member Joined: 6 Oct 2011 Posts: 456 Location: NY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:08pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
DST Said:
Okay, I guess I will keep looking a little longer before I pull the trigger. If I do go with the Vibiemme I will probably choose between Stefanos and 1st Line.
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 1:53pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
cuznvin Said:
Thanks.. I will have to check out one of the retailers showrooms. Believe it or not there are no retailers on Long Island. 200 miles to chris' from where I live. About 3.5 hours. Maybe Ill take a trip to Sharon Springs, Ny and then head over to Chris'. What part of Michigan are u in?
Long Island is a bad place for good coffee :( my years at Stony were marked by increased shipping costs on coffee (nearly twice what it was to Westchester) and always a few extra days on the truck..
That aside. It honestly seems that Bubbadude is the only one here arguing for the BDB. the remaining majority, myself included, are more ambivalent or nervous about one issue or another. This was essentially the same situation I was in a few months ago, and I ended up quite happy with my e61. You definitely do not have to pull this machine apart every couple months. Perhaps if you really screw up something back-flushing, but even then as JonR said, it only takes 15 minutes. I can say however, that you will need to do some maintenence on all of these machines at one point or another, and being able to do so cheaply should be a major concern if you plan on owning the machine for more than a few years. Bubbadude stated earlier that his pretenses for buying the BDB included that in 5 or so years he would probably opt for a newer machine. I dont know about you, but I cant afford to drop a couple grand every five years on a coffee machine, and I would much rather buy one that doesn't need upgrading. These aren't handling complicated algorythyms or computations, it's a thermostat on a boiler and pump, lets not overcomplicate this. The argument that the BDB's techinical advancements will lead to consistently good shots has some merit, but not compared to the thousands of café's which rely on the barista's to know-how to set a grind, tamp, and pull. I know I can walk into Grumpy in NYC anytime of day, at any of their locations and get a great shot, not because of a PID or timed pre-infusion, (they have a rather basic synesso set-up) but because of fresh coffee, and proper training. Some would even argue a PID is more than necessary, I like it because it helps me know when the machine is properly warmed up but short of small adjustments between blends, it's not that critical.
In the case that you buy an e61 and five years from now you decide you want some electronic component present in the newest iMachines, you can always retrofit it. As bubbadude said, these machines often look like retrofitted HX machines. This isn't necessarily true, a lot of thought was placed on how these boilers feed each other, pressure balancing, and usually the effects of multiple thermosyphons on the temperature stability but, these machines are in fact easy to retrofit new components onto.
People similar to Bubbadude will exist for any machine you look at, this isn't a bad thing, nor is it a criticism. It shows that these people have taken the time to familiarize themselves thoroughly with their own equipment and for whatever reason are really dedicated to their "team." I proudly support e61's, in particular the Expobar, but I think because of the e61's diverse utilization we all fall into one group. 20 years from now we will still be trading replacement parts, customizations, and advice. I imagine the BDB users will have upgraded by then.
Anthony C
Currently pulling: Social Coffee Inc. -El Socorro Palo Blanco Espresso
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