cuznvin Senior Member Joined: 6 Oct 2011 Posts: 420 Location: NY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:00pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
BubbaDude Said:
And for a new R58, the price is $2,699.00. Except they're out of stock, so you really can't buy one for any price. Many people have bought new BDBs, on sale, for under $1000. That's a fact.
They wont be out of stock for long. I am aware of the prices on all 3 machines. The machines that were purchased for under $1000 were bought around the holidays. Its a once a year sale..usually. Doesnt matter anyway. I'm not buying a chinese manufactured product. I will buy Italian or German...
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:04pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
What you buy is your own business, but nobody owns the numbers. The average price of the two Italian jobs is $2432.50, pretty close to double the BDB's retail price.
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,058 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:05pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
I think you said it best when you said below you dont care about longevity. You said 3 to 5 years and you will be happy.
BubbaDude Said:
I think it's a hard choice to make because the BDB has been on the market for a year and a half while the PID'ed E61 DB's are brand new and unproven. It wasn't that long ago that people were saying it didn't make any sense to PID an E61, but that discussion is over, at least. I personally have a PID on my wood-fired BBQ smoker, so it's fair to say I never saw a PID I didn't like.
For those who haven't taken the plunge, you need to decide whether you like the E61 retrofit approach that has PID control of both boilers and a siphon on the brew group or the Breville approach that PIDs the brew group and the brew boiler and uses a thermistor on the steam boiler. Then there are the issues about brand reliability, service policies, price, looks, and user convenience features. I personally love the shot timer and the over-fill protection on the BDB, but that's just me. Others are insistent on things like plumb-in, so you have to decide what you want.
EDIT: On a personal note, when I bought my BDB I wasn't looking for a "lifetime" machine. My theory is that the machine should last 3 - 5 years, because after that amount of time there's going to be something better on the market and I'll want to upgrade. Others want a 20 year machine or whatever.
Winnisk Senior Member Joined: 4 Jan 2013 Posts: 9 Location: Moonstone Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill Silvano Grinder: Vario
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:05pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
BubbaDude Said:
EDIT: On a personal note, when I bought my BDB I wasn't looking for a "lifetime" machine. My theory is that the machine should last 3 - 5 years, because after that amount of time there's going to be something better on the market and I'll want to upgrade. Others want a 20 year machine or whatever.
Just a reminder that the only reason one might be willing to pay more might just be more than vanity. Some might want to purchase something that has a better likelihood of lasting. They might not want to purchase new Chinese made machines every 5 years.
BubbaDude Said:
So I say this:
The idea that I'm misleading people who are just coming into the coffee world who might otherwise be inclined to purchase a super-expensive vanity toy just amazes me. This is the Internet, and you should never take any one person's opinion as authoritative. Do your research and make up your own mind.
cuznvin Senior Member Joined: 6 Oct 2011 Posts: 420 Location: NY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:11pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
BubbaDude Said:
What you buy is your own business, but nobody owns the numbers. The average price of the two Italian jobs is $2432.50, pretty close to double the BDB's retail price.
Who cares about averages? The Quickmill is $1899. The Breville is $1199. $600 difference for a whole lot of stainless steel, brass and copper. I know the numbers exactly. You fail to acknowledge that. You just keep repeating yourself.
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:13pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
cuznvin Said:
Who cares about averages? The Quickmill is $1899. The Breville is $1199. $600 difference for a whole lot of stainless steel, brass and copper. I know the numbers exactly. You fail to acknowledge that. You just keep repeating yourself.
Truth.. I just spelled it all out for you. All factual numbers. Seriously?? Is there something that doesnt compute in your brain? You just want to make it look worse than it is by using averages..
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:20pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
cuznvin Said:
Truth.. I just spelled it all out for you. All factual numbers. Seriously?? Is there something that doesnt compute in your brain? You just want to make it look worse than it is by using averages..
It's your dishonesty. I said the BDB is half the price of the other two, and your response was that it's not half the price of one of the other two. That's a dishonest comeback to a factual statement.
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
cuznvin Senior Member Joined: 6 Oct 2011 Posts: 420 Location: NY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:24pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
BubbaDude Said:
It's your dishonesty. I said the BDB is half the price of the other two, and your response was that it's not half the price of one of the other two. That's a dishonest comeback to a factual statement.
Dishonesty??? Dude.. you are seriously out of it and making yourself look like a fool. I said the BDB isnt half the price because the QM was $1899. So, $1200 isnt half of $1899. I am not going to argue with you anymore. You like to twist everything around to suit you. I dont really care what you think. You turned this thread into something that isnt productive at all. Enjoy your BDB.
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 9:29pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
Honestly make the trip to Chris's showroom, fondle QM, R58, Duettos, La Spaziales, a host of HX machines and everything else then pick one, drink coffee , be happy.
The maintenance on the E-61 is cake as JonR pointed out pages ago. If your having to lube it very often then your detergent back flushing it too frequently. After I back flush my lever will pick up a tiny little squeak but you have to really listen to hear it. If it does not go away in the first day or so the it is a 5 minute job to lube it. I can do the beat down clean up job on my Duetto (includes my pulling the screen and gasket twice cause I am freaky that way), grinder, bits and bobs and the counter in less than 30 minutes.
It is not as if you live in Little Rabbit Australia if you do need it serviced down the road.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
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