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Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Trying to Decide...  
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 7:26pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

cuznvin Said:

So much for helping us decide on one of these machines. This is going on FOREVER!!

Posted January 28, 2013 link

I think it's a hard choice to make because the BDB has been on the market for a year and a half while the PID'ed E61 DB's are brand new and unproven. It wasn't that long ago that people were saying it didn't make any sense to PID an E61, but that discussion is over, at least. I personally have a PID on my wood-fired BBQ smoker, so it's fair to say I never saw a PID I didn't like.

For those who haven't taken the plunge, you need to decide whether you like the E61 retrofit approach that has PID control of both boilers and a siphon on the brew group or the Breville approach that PIDs the brew group and the brew boiler and uses a thermistor on the steam boiler. Then there are the issues about brand reliability, service policies, price, looks, and user convenience features. I personally love the shot timer and the over-fill protection on the BDB, but that's just me. Others are insistent on things like plumb-in, so you have to decide what you want.

EDIT: On a personal note, when I bought my BDB I wasn't looking for a "lifetime" machine. My theory is that the machine should last 3 - 5 years, because after that amount of time there's going to be something better on the market and I'll want to upgrade. Others want a 20 year machine or whatever.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

BubbaDude Said:

I think it's a hard choice to make because the BDB has been on the market for a year and a half while the PID'ed E61 DB's are brand new and unproven. It wasn't that long ago that people were saying it didn't make any sense to PID an E61, but that discussion is over, at least. I personally have a PID on my wood-fired BBQ smoker, so it's fair to say I never saw a PID I didn't like.

For those who haven't taken the plunge, you need to decide whether you like the E61 retrofit approach that has PID control of both boilers and a siphon on the brew group or the Breville approach that PIDs the brew group and the brew boiler and uses a thermistor on the steam boiler. Then there are the issues about brand reliability, service policies, price, looks, and user convenience features. I personally love the shot timer and the over-fill protection on the BDB, but that's just me. Others are insistent on things like plumb-in, so you have to decide what you want.

Posted January 28, 2013 link

I dont intend to plumb and after seeing comments about having to take apart the E61 group and lubricate every so often, I am getting turned off by them. So it will probably be something like a La Spaziale Dream or BDB..
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 7:36pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

cuznvin Said:

I dont intend to plumb and after seeing comments about having to take apart the E61 group and lubricate every so often, I am getting turned off by them. So it will probably be something like a La Spaziale Dream or BDB..

Posted January 28, 2013 link

I think I read somewhere that La Spaz is the biggest prosumer machine in Italy. They're been at this for a long time and there's no doubt they know what they're doing. The thing that turned me off the Mini II was all the extra costs for things like a timer and a pre-infusor, but I don't know anything about the Dream.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

I think the pre infusion chamber on the dream is extra but the times is now built in.  Only thing it uses a 53mm portafilter...
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Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,259
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 7:58pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

I will tell you which one to buy. You buy the one which is better. The industry standard is E61...and it started in 1961.  There is another thing follow the money trail.
This is a philosophical argument but one Ive found more likely than not to be true. You get what you pay for. There is a reason the Rocket R58 costs 1500.00 more and
it simply is, its a high end Italian made machine. The Breville is a fine machine in its own right but its not a Rocket R58. The Brevile is made in China. So if you want the best your going to have
to pay for it. So in this order Rocket ,Quickmill and Breville.

Here is a list of machines that use E61.You have to ask yourself why?



"BFC Levetta
BFC Perfetta (aka La Valentina Perfetta)
ECM Cellini (aka ECM Mechanika)
ECM Cellini Premium (aka Mechanika Profi)
ECM Giotto (aka ECM Technika and Rocket)
ECM Giotto Premium (aka ECM Technika Profi and Rocket)
ECM Veneziano S1
Euro2000 Junior (aka Espressa Mini)
Expobar Brewtus
Expobar Control Leva
Fiorenzato Briccoletta a Levetta
Fiorenzato Colombina
Isomac Amica (aka Omixam Mary)
Isomac Hexagon
Isomac Millenium (aka Omixam Roxana)
Isomac Mondiale
Isomac Rituale (aka Bazzar A3, Vitudurum V3 and Omixam Julie)
Isomac Tea (aka Bazzar A3, Vitudurum V3 and Omixam Sophie)
Isomac Zaffiro (aka Bazzar A1, Vitudurum V1 and Omixam Liliane)
Izzo Alex a Levetta
Izzo Vivi
La Nuova Era Alexa
La Scala Butterfly
Magister Stella
Maver Charleston (aka Cafeco Venezia CL)
Maver Firenze
Maver Marte
Quick Mill Alexia
Quick Mill Andreja
Quick Mill Andreja Premium
Quick Mill Anita
Quick Mill Eliane
Quick Mill Vetrano
Salvatore Semi-Auto
San Remo Treviso (manufacturer website unknown)
Unico Splendor
Unique Baristar
Vibiemme Domobar
Vibiemme Domobar Super
Vitudurum V4
Wega Novacento

Machines with E61 Group Head:

Astra Gourmet Automatic
Astra Gourmet Semi-Auto
Astra Pro
BFC Junior (aka La Valentina, Diadema, Vittoria)
BFC Junior Automatic (aka La Valentina, Diadema, Vittoria)
DallaCorte Super Mini
ECM Veneziano A1
Expobar Office Control
Expobar Office Pulser
Fiorenzato Briccoletta a Pulsante
Grimac La Uno
Grimac La Uno Automatic
Grimac Mia
Isomac Relax (aka Omixam Alice)
Isomac Relax Automatic
Izzo Alex a Pulsante
La Nuova Era Alexa Automatic
Salvatore Automatic
Vibiemme Domobar Super Elettronica
Wega Mininova Inox (aka CMA, Astoria, San Marino) (aka Wega Lyra)
Wega Mininova Inox Automatic (aka CMA, Astoria, San Marino) (aka Wega Lyra)"

Click Here (temesblog.blogspot.com)

The Brevile is a fine machine and if you want to buy it Im sure like all these folks you will be very very happy. But if you want to
get the best of these three in my humble opinion you go in the order I gave. If you dont believe me call any reputable dealer and ask them why
the Rocket costs 1500.00 dollars more, seriously doubt they are going to say because the Italians want the money and are over charging.

cuznvin Said:

So much for helping us decide on one of these machines. This is going on FOREVER!!

Posted January 28, 2013 link

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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 8:02pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Iluvdabean Said:

I will tell you which one to buy. You buy the one which is better.

Posted January 28, 2013 link

This comment is funny. My point is that the E61 is unproven in the PID configuration. There's a lot of history in the HX world, but it's not all that relevant.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,259
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 8:08pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Thats cool bro...Ive spent my time here years ago arguing, I simply wanted to state my view. Enjoy your machine and in the end thats what its about.
My opinions as valid as yours so we can just leave it at that.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 8:09pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Iluvdabean Said:

I will tell you which one to buy. You buy the one which is better. The industry standard is E61...and it started in 1961.  There is another thing follow the money trail.
This is a philosophical argument but one Ive found more likely than not to be true. You get what you pay for. There is a reason the Rocket R58 costs 1500.00 more and
it simply is, its a high end Italian made machine. The Breville is a fine machine in its own right but its not a Rocket R58. The Brevile is made in China. So if you want the best your going to have
to pay for it. So in this order Rocket ,Quickmill and Breville.

Here is a list of machines that use E61.You have to ask yourself why?



"BFC Levetta
BFC Perfetta (aka La Valentina Perfetta)
ECM Cellini (aka ECM Mechanika)
ECM Cellini Premium (aka Mechanika Profi)
ECM Giotto (aka ECM Technika and Rocket)
ECM Giotto Premium (aka ECM Technika Profi and Rocket)
ECM Veneziano S1
Euro2000 Junior (aka Espressa Mini)
Expobar Brewtus
Expobar Control Leva
Fiorenzato Briccoletta a Levetta
Fiorenzato Colombina
Isomac Amica (aka Omixam Mary)
Isomac Hexagon
Isomac Millenium (aka Omixam Roxana)
Isomac Mondiale
Isomac Rituale (aka Bazzar A3, Vitudurum V3 and Omixam Julie)
Isomac Tea (aka Bazzar A3, Vitudurum V3 and Omixam Sophie)
Isomac Zaffiro (aka Bazzar A1, Vitudurum V1 and Omixam Liliane)
Izzo Alex a Levetta
Izzo Vivi
La Nuova Era Alexa
La Scala Butterfly
Magister Stella
Maver Charleston (aka Cafeco Venezia CL)
Maver Firenze
Maver Marte
Quick Mill Alexia
Quick Mill Andreja
Quick Mill Andreja Premium
Quick Mill Anita
Quick Mill Eliane
Quick Mill Vetrano
Salvatore Semi-Auto
San Remo Treviso (manufacturer website unknown)
Unico Splendor
Unique Baristar
Vibiemme Domobar
Vibiemme Domobar Super
Vitudurum V4
Wega Novacento

Machines with E61 Group Head:

Astra Gourmet Automatic
Astra Gourmet Semi-Auto
Astra Pro
BFC Junior (aka La Valentina, Diadema, Vittoria)
BFC Junior Automatic (aka La Valentina, Diadema, Vittoria)
DallaCorte Super Mini
ECM Veneziano A1
Expobar Office Control
Expobar Office Pulser
Fiorenzato Briccoletta a Pulsante
Grimac La Uno
Grimac La Uno Automatic
Grimac Mia
Isomac Relax (aka Omixam Alice)
Isomac Relax Automatic
Izzo Alex a Pulsante
La Nuova Era Alexa Automatic
Salvatore Automatic
Vibiemme Domobar Super Elettronica
Wega Mininova Inox (aka CMA, Astoria, San Marino) (aka Wega Lyra)
Wega Mininova Inox Automatic (aka CMA, Astoria, San Marino) (aka Wega Lyra)"

Click Here (temesblog.blogspot.com)

The Brevile is a fine machine and if you want to buy it Im sure like all these folks you will be very very happy. But if you want to
get the best of these three in my humble opinion you go in the order I gave. If you dont believe me call any reputable dealer and ask them why
the Rocket costs 1500.00 dollars more, seriously doubt they are going to say because the Italians want the money and are over charging.

Posted January 28, 2013 link

'''

I did ask.. And was told.. NOt worth the extra money in their opinion. Now, the rocket r58 isnt $1500 more than a la Spaziale Vivaldi or Dream which doesnt have an E61.  Buy the one which is better? Who decides which one is better? I do agree about the CHina made Breville. I try to avoid products made in China because they just dont seem to care about what product they put out or what kind of poison they put in our food.
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 8:10pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Iluvdabean Said:

Thats cool bro...Ive spent my time here years ago arguing, I simply wanted to state my view. Enjoy your machine and in the end thats what its about.
My opinions as valid as yours so we can just leave it at that.

Posted January 28, 2013 link

So why don't you have a Rocket yourself?

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 8:14pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

I would like to add an ECM Germany Technika to the list and also the new Electonika coming out soon..
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