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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > time to update  
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Jbortz
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Location: ny
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: saeco vienna deluxe
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 2:48pm
Subject: time to update
 

Hello. I am new to coffee geek and am looking for help info on the next step up the espresso ladder

I love espresso. I have owned a Saeco vienna deluxe machine for about eight years and never really made an espresso near as delicious as those from a coffee bar. I assume its my own lack of skill/knowledge.
Never really been able to correctly forth the milk as this machine has a steam wand with a plastic panarello which is supposed to direct the steam in a multidirectional fashion but doesn't really. I always get mostly froth with little milk remaining.

Machine is getting finicky and I am considering the purchase of a new one. Not sure if I should continue along with this type of "super automatic" machine or consider buying a a different type. This machine grinds the beans, tamps and discards the plus with a separate wand for steaming, so I have little to no experience with semi automatics.

While I am mostly interested in espresso, I would like a machine with which I could produce good milk drinks as well. Would appreciate advice on current recommendations for a similar machine or opinion as to whether I would do better with a semi automatic machine and if so, which ones.

Thanks-

JBortz
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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 658
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 3:16pm
Subject: Re: time to update
 

Your imagination and pocketbook are the only limits to how nice a machine you can own. What's your budget? Keep in mind the grinder is going to take up a significant portion of your purchase and that a new, electric grinder that does adequate espresso is no less than $300, period.

If you have less than $1000, I would advise getting a Crossland CC1 and a refurbished Baratza Preciso. If you have $1500, I'd recommend the Nuova Simonelli Oscar and the previous said grinder. $1500+ there are myriad gleaming, silver cubes which will serve you just fine.

Keep in mind that any machine over $1000 will generally be a Heat Exchanger or Dual Boiler, which will produce a lot of steam without much waiting in between. These machines don't have panarellos, so you will be able to learn to steam milk the real way too.
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,892
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 3:25pm
Subject: Re: time to update
 

John, welcome to CG!
You sort of answered your question.

Truthfully, there is NO substitute for having a proper espresso grinder separate from a proper espresso machine.
Not6 only will the milk be properly textured, your espresso will be leaps and bounds better. With a little practice, your espresso and milk drinks will rival the finest cafes...assuming you purchase, or roast high quality coffee beans. Remember...junk in, junk out, quality in, etc.

Good water, with just the right amount of mineral content for taste is another important element of the equation.

I'd suggest perusing our Consumer reviews for grinders and machines, and also search here for other threads such as "Noob wants better espresso" and some such.
A proper grinder for espresso 9and sometimes other grinds as well...see Baratza grinders for a grinder that does excellent espresso and drip, etc...will run anywhere from $250 on top. DO NOT skimp on the grinder. It is more important than the machine.
A nice HX (heat exchanger), like an NS Oscar runs around $1000, but can be found preowned for less.
Search our BST Forum for ideas, and grinders/machines.

You will not find much support here for Super Autos. Don't forget, an "Automatic" machine differs, in that you can either allow the machine to determine the volume of your singles and doubles, or you can do it manually. Like a Semi auto, YOU still do the heavy lifting!

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 3:47pm
Subject: Re: time to update
 

Hi JBortz,

I am a recovering super auto head. Pay heed to the advise above get an excellent grinder, decent machine and you WILL be amazed.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,181
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 3:58pm
Subject: Re: time to update
 

Just to add to the good responses you got so far...

I'd recommend reading the espresso machine buying guide on this website.

Also, it would be helpful for us to know:

1) your drink demand
2) your budget
3) power supply at intended location...15 or 20 amp
4) can you plumb the machine

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Jbortz
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Location: ny
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: saeco vienna deluxe
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 4:46pm
Subject: Re: time to update
 

I want to thank everyone for the prompt responses. Already love this site.

In answer to Jwoodyu questions,
drink demand is less than six per day, some espresso some latte/cap
budget would be higher but I'd never hear the end of it ( my wife is already claiming that you need an expensive grinder for a good espresso but  you have all made it abundantly clear that one does)
so budget 1000 to 2000.
have to get back on the amperage
not plumbing the machine
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Jbortz
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Location: ny
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: saeco vienna deluxe
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 4:49pm
Subject: Re: time to update
 

One more time-

So I take it there is no such thing as a good or great grinder which is incorporated into an espresso machine for home use?
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,436
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 4:54pm
Subject: Re: time to update
 

NO.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 5:28pm
Subject: Re: time to update
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

NO.

Posted January 26, 2013 link

Simple, easy to rememberer.

Sounds like a job for a used Major and Cellini or Anita to me.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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