Jbortz Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Posts: 3 Location: ny Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: saeco vienna deluxe
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 2:48pm Subject: time to update
Hello. I am new to coffee geek and am looking for help info on the next step up the espresso ladder
I love espresso. I have owned a Saeco vienna deluxe machine for about eight years and never really made an espresso near as delicious as those from a coffee bar. I assume its my own lack of skill/knowledge. Never really been able to correctly forth the milk as this machine has a steam wand with a plastic panarello which is supposed to direct the steam in a multidirectional fashion but doesn't really. I always get mostly froth with little milk remaining.
Machine is getting finicky and I am considering the purchase of a new one. Not sure if I should continue along with this type of "super automatic" machine or consider buying a a different type. This machine grinds the beans, tamps and discards the plus with a separate wand for steaming, so I have little to no experience with semi automatics.
While I am mostly interested in espresso, I would like a machine with which I could produce good milk drinks as well. Would appreciate advice on current recommendations for a similar machine or opinion as to whether I would do better with a semi automatic machine and if so, which ones.
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 3:16pm Subject: Re: time to update
Your imagination and pocketbook are the only limits to how nice a machine you can own. What's your budget? Keep in mind the grinder is going to take up a significant portion of your purchase and that a new, electric grinder that does adequate espresso is no less than $300, period.
If you have less than $1000, I would advise getting a Crossland CC1 and a refurbished Baratza Preciso. If you have $1500, I'd recommend the Nuova Simonelli Oscar and the previous said grinder. $1500+ there are myriad gleaming, silver cubes which will serve you just fine.
Keep in mind that any machine over $1000 will generally be a Heat Exchanger or Dual Boiler, which will produce a lot of steam without much waiting in between. These machines don't have panarellos, so you will be able to learn to steam milk the real way too.
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 3:25pm Subject: Re: time to update
John, welcome to CG! You sort of answered your question.
Truthfully, there is NO substitute for having a proper espresso grinder separate from a proper espresso machine. Not6 only will the milk be properly textured, your espresso will be leaps and bounds better. With a little practice, your espresso and milk drinks will rival the finest cafes...assuming you purchase, or roast high quality coffee beans. Remember...junk in, junk out, quality in, etc.
Good water, with just the right amount of mineral content for taste is another important element of the equation.
I'd suggest perusing our Consumer reviews for grinders and machines, and also search here for other threads such as "Noob wants better espresso" and some such. A proper grinder for espresso 9and sometimes other grinds as well...see Baratza grinders for a grinder that does excellent espresso and drip, etc...will run anywhere from $250 on top. DO NOT skimp on the grinder. It is more important than the machine. A nice HX (heat exchanger), like an NS Oscar runs around $1000, but can be found preowned for less. Search our BST Forum for ideas, and grinders/machines.
You will not find much support here for Super Autos. Don't forget, an "Automatic" machine differs, in that you can either allow the machine to determine the volume of your singles and doubles, or you can do it manually. Like a Semi auto, YOU still do the heavy lifting!
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 3:47pm Subject: Re: time to update
Hi JBortz,
I am a recovering super auto head. Pay heed to the advise above get an excellent grinder, decent machine and you WILL be amazed.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
Jbortz Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2013 Posts: 3 Location: ny Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: saeco vienna deluxe
Posted Sat Jan 26, 2013, 4:46pm Subject: Re: time to update
I want to thank everyone for the prompt responses. Already love this site.
In answer to Jwoodyu questions, drink demand is less than six per day, some espresso some latte/cap budget would be higher but I'd never hear the end of it ( my wife is already claiming that you need an expensive grinder for a good espresso but you have all made it abundantly clear that one does) so budget 1000 to 2000. have to get back on the amperage not plumbing the machine
Sounds like a job for a used Major and Cellini or Anita to me.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
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