Posted Tue Jan 22, 2013, 4:26pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
germantownrob Said:
Be warned then that the Duetto ships with one of the pressure gauge lines needing to be hooked up before using, this requires you to be somewhat handy to even use the machine and to have a Philips head screwdriver, 10 mm wrench, and a 12mm wrench do do the job.
This doesn't strike me as a problem, I buy lots of things with "some assembly required." If the average human can assemble a tricycle, hooking up a pressure gauge shouldn't be much of an issue. Besides the fun, maybe it helps introduce Joe Consumer to the innards of the machine.
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2013, 4:29pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
Hey guys, I was down at Clive Coffee a little while ago and decided I'd film a little video comparing the pump sounds of the BDB, QM67 and Duetto 3 side by side. For me, the QM67 is the real surprise here. Too bad they didn't have an R58 in stock, but it should sound nearly identical to the Duetto.
cuznvin Senior Member Joined: 6 Oct 2011 Posts: 420 Location: NY Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2013, 4:41pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
Hey guys, I was down at Clive Coffee a little while ago and decided I'd film a little video comparing the pump sounds of the BDB, QM67 and Duetto 3 side by side. For me, the QM67 is the real surprise here. Too bad they didn't have an R58 in stock, but it should sound nearly identical to the Duetto.
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2013, 4:47pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
Yes, but I expect a rotary to be nearly silent (it better be for the price!). The first three machines use the same pump technology, and the two Quick Mills share a similar same price point.
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2013, 7:20pm Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
benpiff Said:
Yes, but I expect a rotary to be nearly silent (it better be for the price!). The first three machines use the same pump technology, and the two Quick Mills share a similar same price point.
It's one of the common Ulka pumps, but mounting is everything with those babies. The Francis! mounts it in a rubber horseshoe that produces a lot less noise than the BDB.
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 925 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jan 23, 2013, 12:58am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
germantownrob Said:
Just a note on shipping. I knew my machine had arrived when I heard the thump of the UPS man pulling the machine off the truck and it landing on the ground, think of what they do when they know nobody can see them.
Allow me to re-introduce myself. I was in your exact position less than a year ago, torn between the R58, the QM, the Expobar, and the BDB.
For a long while the BDB was the winner, its price and design were great, and it looked like a good machine. I dropped it from the list however for a number of reasons, many have already been listed here; the lack of user serviceable parts, less physical control over the shot (push-button), no user descale, limited US service centers, etc.
The R58 is a beautiful piece, and was the machine that really made me love the industrial looking e-61 brew group. I had a lot of trouble telling myself not to spend the extra cash on this one, simply on the principle that; while I wan't to buy a machine I will never need to replace, I still as a home user shouldn't ever drop close to 3 grand on a coffee machine. Also, its external PID, and limited user base at the time was a bit of a gripe as well. But wow is it pretty or what!
The Alexia was the machine I actually called up to buy. It is bigger than the others, and yes it will require some assembly after shipping, but when you own a DB machine you should really be comfortable doing these minor adjustments and repairs anyway. I saw the users here were very dedicated to it, and it had a great set of reviews to back it up. The sales person was kind enough to help me compare a few machines, and even rand both pumps near the phone, to supplement the hundreds of user reviews and video's I had already seen. I have to say, I wasn't impressed with the rotary pump's volume, and I honestly enjoy the "warm-up," on the vibration pump... it is an active pre-infusion that really plays off of your tamping skills. I turned this machine down last minute, no regrets.
The QM. well it's smaller, has a smaller user base, not a lot of reviews, and would have had to ship from Italy. I liked the reduce volume on its vibration pump, I wish more machines would use this feed-back trick. It was pretty, but seemed more delicate than the others. I'll admit my research on the QM stopped pretty early on, I was distracted by the BDB.
The Expobar. I will be the first to tell you of this machines less than luxurious feel. It is a tool, not a piece of art. There are no custom stamped metal panels, no art-deco ridges in the face. It is just a big, heavy, steam machine. My fears were thus: the vibration pump would be too loud, the machine would be poorly built, there are few users to draw supporting info from, there are few US service centers (I do live close to one though), etc. However, the machine is much cheaper than it's size comparable competitors, and is obviously built out of some heavy duty parts. My biggest issue with the Expobar was that the plumb w/ tank model has a relief into the drip tray, but this is done with the assumption that you are plumbing the machine, and was easy enough to fix in under 10 minutes with 20in of tubing. The PID is accurate, the boilers are big and reliable, the steam is strong, and it's no burn steam wand will fit any steam tip you buy, I have the four pack from rocket and use the two-hole. The gauges are well places, the pump is quiet enough compared to my grinders, and its footprint isn't that large.
I know the expobar came with two in-tank water softening cartidges, the BDB comes with its own filters, I do not know about the others. This was a concern for me after what happened to my last machine even with regular descaling. I use bottled water now anyway.
Any of these machines will do you justice, it now just comes down to cost. Might I plug in that any cash you save on the machine should go to your grinder, a tamper (if not included with your machine), fresh coffee, knock-box, and all the other BS we say you have to buy but would most likely be perfectly happy without :)
Best of luck!
Anthony C
Currently pulling: -espresso- Social Coffee Co. (Ontario, Canada): -Peoples Liberation -Peoples Daily -El Socorro Palo Blanco Espresso
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