sn_85 Senior Member Joined: 1 Dec 2011 Posts: 131 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill Andreja Premium Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sat Jan 12, 2013, 8:18pm Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II
Besides noise levels there shouldn't be a difference in the cup when comparing vib vs rotary. Really the only time it gets loud is when it fills the boiler but during brewing it's really not that loud. I mean it is much quieter and certainly a factor but I'm not sure that it is a deal breaker to have a vib pump.
Also keep in mind that the QM67 is only a reservoir machine, it can't be plumbed. The Alexia, Anita, AP, QM67 all have vib pumps. Only the vetrano has a rotary.
1st-line.com has the ECM Technika for $1899, an HX rotary pump machine that can be either reservoir or plumb. Spec wise it's a step above the ECM Barista. Click Here (www.1st-line.com)
I've got a Duetto 2 and would have suggested it or the new 3. I like the look of the 3, but got a deal for a used II through a fellow CGr. I couldnt be happier. I liked the prior HX machine I had, but love the DB. I really enjoy not missing the cooling flush.
I'm sure you'll be very happy! Be sure to chime in and let us know what your thoughts are on the III.
Topgun Senior Member Joined: 8 Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Location: Kansas City Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Fri Mar 1, 2013, 2:42pm Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II
I received the Duetto 3 and wow! what a beautiful machine. After receiving the machine, I was not able to immediately get it up and running (busy work schedule, etc.) I also wanted to plumb it directly since it's placed under the cupboard. In addition, I want to make sure I never ingested any hard water, including impurities.
I purchased a reverse osmosis system and plumbed it directly to the Duetto. Everything is up and running. I've been able to pull some tasty shots.
The machine itself is beautiful, shines with a smile and looks great sitting on the countertop. It heats up quickly (I'm feeding it 20amps), stabilizes well and can keep up with pulling multiple shots.
The only issue I have is when using a bottomless portafilter. When the shot pulls, about 5-7 seconds in, it starts to "spray" and the "rat tail" walks all over.... as if it's channeling. When I look at the puck, it doesn't appear to have any channeling. I think my problem is the pressure. It pulls 10 bar and 9 is recommended. If anyone has any suggestions, i'm all ears. I need to pull the hood off and adjust it down to 9 and try it.
Thanks for all the opinions and recommendations everyone shared.
Italo2275 Senior Member Joined: 9 Jan 2013 Posts: 96 Location: Toronto Expertise: Just starting
Posted Fri Mar 1, 2013, 5:03pm Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II
HI OK, I recently went through the same as you and the only thing I can suggest is to go to the store and try them out, try the coffee and the Lattes and look at them. I had 3 to pick. QM67, Rocket R58 and the Alex. I will be honest once I saw the Alex3 and the R58 the QM67 was there but I did not even look at it. For me it looked like sheet metal as suppose to the better built quality of the Alex and the R58.
I did chhose the R58 over the Alex3 but now do to the lack of Performance and support from the Owner I am exchagin to an Alex 3
Here Are some of the reasons why I liked the R58 over the alex3 - The Alex is much bigger - The Cup clearance is very short thefore hard to to a bigger cup - I did not like the hose in the water reservoir, the r58 does not have hoses, Maybe not important but it was a small thing i rather avoid. -The steam handles make a springing noise not sure why?
This is what I liked about the Alex" The cup warmer has a larger surface and also easy to get acess to the water tank, in the other machines you have to pull all the cups off, with the alex you can use the handles and take the top with the cups on it. The steaming on the alex is much faster Boilers are a bit bigger PID is nice to have on the machine also the gages you can see them as they are up high, on the R58 you kind of have to bend dow.
NOW, I am going with the ALex and bight the pill on the things I did not like cuase for me the motor sound is more important and also the bad experience i had with the R58.
coffeestig Junior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2013 Posts: 60 Location: Charlotte Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill QM67 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic... Drip: French Press
Posted Fri Mar 1, 2013, 7:16pm Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II
Same boat for me... I went with the QM67. It has preinfusion for one. Yes is has a vibrating motor but It is very quiet and is designed to be quieter than most. It's quieter than my grinder as well. Also the QM67 is going to heat up far faster than the Alex or Rocket. Additionally you the QM67 has on/off switches for both broilers so you don't even have to turn on the steam broiler. Arguably for a single shat the QM67 could make a better espresso with the pre infusion that the Alex does not have. If your making a dozen double shots back to back then the alex may be a better fit but for most home applications where a tank and 15A is the usage I think the QM67 actually excels.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 5:44am Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II
coffeestig Said:
Same boat for me... I went with the QM67. It has preinfusion for one. Yes is has a vibrating motor but It is very quiet and is designed to be quieter than most. It's quieter than my grinder as well. Also the QM67 is going to heat up far faster than the Alex or Rocket. Additionally you the QM67 has on/off switches for both broilers so you don't even have to turn on the steam broiler. Arguably for a single shat the QM67 could make a better espresso with the pre infusion that the Alex does not have. If your making a dozen double shots back to back then the alex may be a better fit but for most home applications where a tank and 15A is the usage I think the QM67 actually excels.
The facts you are posting are tainted with things salesmen say and are full of falseness.
All E-61 groups have basic preinfusion. My Duetto even in tank mode the lever can be lifted just past mid just before the pump kicks on and I can get flow with no pump.
Why should the QM67 heat up so much faster then the Duetto or R58? The extra 200watt to the steam boiler? Steam boiler does not have influence over brewing and the Alex in 20 amp would be far faster then a 15amp since it will deliver constant power to the steam boiler instead of sharing duty with the brew boiler. Warm up time of brew boiler and group are going to be realitivly similar, they are all e-61 groups and will be stable somewhere after 45 min on.
All these machines mentioned can have the steam boiler turned off when needed.
Your reasoning that your machine can deliver hot water better then these machine or really any machine to produce a better shot is just false. There are differences in how a roatary pump works from a vibe pump but not something I would say makes that big a difference in the cup.
There are a lot of small things that add to the extra cost to the Duetto and the R-58 over the QM67. You saved yourself a few hundred dollars on your qm67 and you have a machine that should make you happy for a long time but you are comparing apples and oranges and using false information to justify your decision to readers.
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 11:59am Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II
I just love when someone gives the explanation on DBs and HXs, and makes the argument that a Dual Boiler is overkill for the home, but an HX isnt.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE MACHINES IS OVERKILL FOR THE HOME. They're Semi-Commercial machines, some of them are full commercial machines. If they had NSF ratings, you could use them commercially, but as they are, almost any of them can be put in an art gallery, or a library, or even a small restaurant, and do very well.
There is better reasons to choose between an HX or DB, most are personal preference. But to skip a DB because its overkill, and then buy an HX, is ridiculous. Skip the DB because you like the way an HX works. Or skip the HX because you want the idiot proof temperature management and flexibility that a 1degree PID control provides. But make no mistake, they're ALL overkill.
/rant
What grinder will you be buying?
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 923 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 2:32pm Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II
Jmanespresso Said:
There is better reasons to choose between an HX or DB, most are personal preference. But to skip a DB because its overkill, and then buy an HX, is ridiculous. Skip the DB because you like the way an HX works. Or skip the HX because you want the idiot proof temperature management and flexibility that a 1degree PID control provides. But make no mistake, they're ALL overkill.
I'm just going to chime in here and say, overkill implies it's not a good investment, the sad truth is a machine costing half as much won't last half as long or even 25% as long. So without buying what you term overkill, you just don't get the quality. These machines are for the long haul, properly maintained, they should last 20-30 years or more without there being a great expense on parts. My Duetto is now 6 years old with over 30,000 hours operation. So far it has had no spares apart from a few group gaskets. At this years annual inspection, pump was totally dry where it meets the motor housing, motor spins freely and spins on for a long time when the spindle is spun. It looks factory fresh inside and the same outside as the day I got it. I fully expect it to look the same in 6 years time. By then perhaps it will have needed a pump, possibly a £15 pressurestat and a few more group gaskets.
When you put the expected service life and the quality during that life into perspective.....the cost of ownership of these machines is actually quite cheap ( less than $3 per week, including spares).
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