Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 475 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 8:49pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
You're going to be hard-pressed to find anything under a grand that offers stable temperatures. It's why people buy the Rancilio Silvia for $700 and then spend another $150 putting a PID controller in it. And if you're using a pressurized portafilter, temperature ought to be the least of your worries.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,761 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 9:11pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
Any machine requires about half an hour to warm up. I would lay odds that "those reviews" were from people who didn't let the machine warm up properly and just pulled their shots when the light went out.
I had an aroma for a short time and I did not have temp issues. It is about the most basic there is that can still make good espresso.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 475 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 9:47pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
This ^
I forgot about the warmup time. Sure, the fist-sized boiler will be hot in minutes, but the brass grouphead that conducts and retains heat during brewing takes about half an hour to come up to temperature.
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,222 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 10:12pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
I will chime in as I went through this about 1 year ago and my thoughts are similar to those already given. I have used a Gaggia Classic for about 1 year and a Delonghi EC701 machine for years before that. The Delonghi is like some of the other cheaper machines, no 3 way, uses pressurized portafilter and more plastic. The Classic with an adjustable pressure OPV and 3 way valve is a nice simple machine that many on the forum have used for years before upgrading. I do not believe that the Classics have temperature problems, nor most of the machines if warmed up and you learn to adjust the temperature by surfing, timing the shot to the lights and temperature/heater cycles.
The other expense is an espresso capable grinder. One of the recommended grinders is the Baratza Preciso, available as refurb directly from Baratza for $239 and about $12 shipping. That is about the lowest price grinder that recommended for espresso.
I rarely drink coffee now and use espresso/americano instead.
Who else is using this machine? Seems like their needs should be taken into account, too. If it's just you, WTH kind of gift-giving tradition is in place here? ;)
emil3m Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Posts: 29 Location: New York Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 3:38pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
I live alone. My friends and I generally exchange gifts, because gift cards are impersonal. In this particular situation, I can see the genius in giving me money with strings attached--this is harder than picking any gadget I've ever owned.
Why is me never wanting to drink shots a problem? When I go to Starbucks I always get double or triple shot in all my espresso based drinks and still get the same dark color as I would with a cup of coffee... Maybe it's my inexperience, but I don't see the contradiction.
Heat is something I can't give up. Would be a shame to spend so much money and then have to microwave the beverage. I've been reading and watching pretty much the entire YouTube Page of Seattle Coffee Gear and the only video where she woman actually burned herself tasting a drink was the Krups Espresseria super auto. The Breville Barista is a semi only in that it simply has its own grinder; you still do the temping and it comes with 4 portafilters. The Krups pulls shots at 195 degrees, while the Breville measured warm at 130. I really like my drinks hot.
It's a morning drink we're talking here, I really don't see how I'd have the time to play around so much to get a decent cup. The Breville Dual Boiler is $1,075 not including a grinder--that's the best I could find... Too expensive.
$400 budget is apparently unreasonable. Does anyone have an idea how I could fit into $800 with reliable temp and the rich espresso flavor? That flavor is the reason I'm here. The Bunn Trifecta mentioned earlier is a great coffee maker, but it's still no espresso.
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 6:05pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
I got along fine for years without a PID. honestly, you'll see such a difference in taste based solely on a good grinder and fresh roasted coffee. I 2nd the recommendation for a Gaggia Classic + Refurb Preciso. I've bought refurb grinders from Baratza before as gifts, and they've always been just as great as brand new.
The Preciso is really the best price you're going to get on a grinder capable of grinding for espresso. If you can't swing the $375 for the Gaggia Classic, I used a Starbucks Barista for years as my "starter machine" with wonderful results. (I had to buy a non-pressurized saeco portafilter for it, but I think this was only like $20). I believe this machine was a re-branded Saeco, and I had no complaints. In fact, it is still going strong at the home of a friend of mine, and this is a good 7-8 years after purchase. You can find them on ebay or craigslist for about $100 now.
While your concerns about temperature are valid, unless you have the budget to spend $700+, your primary concerns need to be getting an espresso capable grinder, and a decent starter machine to learn on. Use that warm up time everyone is talking about, and you'll be happy.
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 8:09pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
emil3m Said:
Why is me never wanting to drink shots a problem? When I go to Starbucks I always get double or triple shot in all my espresso based drinks and still get the same dark color as I would with a cup of coffee... Maybe it's my inexperience, but I don't see the contradiction.
Oh, it's not. I'd misinterpreted before (failed to take what you said as applying to *straight* shots only). Gotcha--sorry.
I understand better now what motivated the gift, but did I miss where you outlined why exactly you're dissatisfied with the Nespresso? I gather you want more control over drink size and temperature. Ok, but as Peter Parker said, with great power comes great responsibility! Bad joke, I know. Still, given your comments about not wanting to mess around in the morning I feel you might be better off either keeping this gift or returning it and relying on the moka pot you already have.
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