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_aki
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 20
Location: London
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 5:17pm
Subject: Gaggia Classic proofing
 

Hello,

After reading this guide: Click Here (www.coffeecrew.com) I decided to proof my Gaggia Classic.

The guide says:

"Turn on your machine and wait at least 15 -20 minutes so that it is thoroughly warmed up.
Get a small styrofoam cup of the take-out variety and mark a line measuring the 2 ounce level, and another mark measuring the 3 ounce level. In metric terms that's roughly 60 ml and 90 ml respectively. Next, you will need to find a good quality dial type frothing thermometer and insert it horizontally through the cup. The point of the thermometer should not puncture the other side and the thermometer should be inserted low enough in the cup that the stem is covered by water. Place the cup along with the thermometer underneath your group and turn ON the brew switch and draw at least two ounces of water. Turn OFF the brew switch when you have enough water in the cup. Measure the maximum temperature achieved.
Repeat this test several times in a row using the 2 ounce mark. Do the test again using the 3 ounce mark.

If you are not attaining at least 192F (89C) in all tests, then your thermostat is running too cool. I would be tempted to either return the machine or replace the thermostat."

I did this four times for 2 oz (60 ml) and four times for 3 oz (90 ml). I waited approximately 1-2 minutes between times, used half a plastic squeezy bottle for the water and a Thermapen to measure the temperature. http://thermapen.co.uk/
I had the portafilter in when I did the tests.

My measurements are as follow:

60 ml -
  1. 87.0C, 188.6F
  2. 87.8C, 190.04F
  3. 84.0C, 183.2F
  4. 81.2C, 178.16F

90 ml -
  1. 87.8C, 190.04F
  2. 81.1C, 177.98F
  3. 81.0C, 177.8F
  4. 82.5C, 180.5F

So my question is, should I care about not hitting the 89C/192F that the guide states is the target?

I think my espressos are a good temperature but this test got me wondering.

Thanks in advance,
_aki
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 488
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: HG One, OE Lido 2, Baratza...
Drip: Chemex/V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:17pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic proofing
 

I can see getting mixed results based on where in the cycle the machine is at.

Therefore, if you're absolutely worried put a thermistor on the boiler and pull around 240 degrees or you can try other means to temperature surf. After that remeasure.
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,047
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 1:09am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic proofing
 

I think it's important to know that the styrofoam cup method, being rather fuzzy, will only give you an approximation of brewing temperatures.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,842
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 6:44am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic proofing
 

I agree with Nobby here, the cup/thermometer method is only a rough indicator at best. It will always be cooler than the true temp of the water, no thermometer is able to react fast enough to be more than a rough guess using this method.

You are in the ball park of what would be expected using this method, which has been around for a long time. It is not new and we have talked about it many, many times here.

If it was accurate enough to gauge the true temp of the machine, there would be no need for built in gauges on the machine it's self let alone digital readouts using very fast acting thermocouples. Yes I know the thermalpin is a thermocouple but it still has a lag, more than the thermocouples that are built into the machines or even after market PID units.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 9:40am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic proofing
 

You say that you had the portafilter in place when you did these tests.  Is this correct?

It should not be in place - you should be measuring the water temperature when it leaves the shower screen, before it would come into contact with the coffee if the portafilter was loaded and in place.  The portafilter will be cooler than the water, even if thoroughly preheated, and so your readings will be lower than the true value.
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_aki
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 20
Location: London
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 9:41am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic proofing
 

Ah, gotcha. I'll try again without the portafilter but it seems that my values are OK anyway.

Thanks!
_aki
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,021
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Classic proofing
 

Your values are fine.  A few other variables that make the cup method of temperature difficult are height of the cup/how much air does the water free fall through, did you preheat the cup and thermometer with hot water until immediately before the test, does the cup have thermal mass or does it rapidly lose heat (Styrofoam was very good) and did you keep the PF on until immediately before you ran water into the cup.  That can affect group temperature.  Then watch the reading for a couple seconds and see how quickly the water temerature falls and realize that you are trying to get a very quick point in time temperature reading. What did you do to control where you started in the temperature cycle of the brewstat?  The Gaggia boiler holds about 105 ml, so you are quickly exchanging the water, so the temperatures give an idea that the Gaggia boiler is almost a thermoblock.

Back to realize that "your values are fine," and you are contemplating a PID, so smile and be happy :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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