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Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
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_aki
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 20
Location: London
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 12:37pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

Btw. regarding thermal compound: Could I use Artic Silver 5? I still have some left after repairing the CPU and GPU on my Playstation 3. :-)
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 1:21pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

_aki Said:

So should I look for a PID controller with two alarms?

Posted January 15, 2013 link

You can decide if you want to use all 3 functions, brew/idle temperature, steam and add heat with brew/pump.  That is not standard and I do not know of others doing that.  Certainly brew/idle and steam are common.  The difficulty comes in hooking it all up and having room for the components.  Plenty of room for an SSR and small cell phone or other DC charger, or 2, inside the case, but that is your decision.  SSR runs on DC and internal of the Gaggia is AC.  The SSR output of the PID controller is switched to DC, but you will need another way to get DC for the steam and pump functions, the chargers.  All of that is the thread.  You may want to skim the thread before you decide.  I had a couple of cell phone chargers laying around so the cost was essentially zero.  You will need some understanding and skills at simple electronics, wiring and crimping or soldering.  You will need to acquire proper wiring, but that should be easy.

Not all controllers with PID to SSR and 2 alarms in addition will work.  Some alarms function differently than others, but you will need a little PID reading to understand that.  Try to look and understand the alarm function is this PID, the fairly standard working of a PID controller with one alarm.  Page 7 and 8 on the alarm.  Not all alarms can be set for "lower limit alarm."  Some of the 2 alarm PID do not have both set this way.  This is a great generic PID manual to get the idea of how to set one up, but you do not really have to understand it all.  You can just follow instructions and hook it up.

http://users.rcn.com/erics/PID/PID_Manual_2.pdf

I believe the Arctic silver paste is fairly high end thermal compound and should easily work.

If you are still interested in any of the PID functions, let me know.  You can hook them up one at a time and keep it simple.  First just measure temperature with the thermocouple, next the SSR and idle temperature, and later steam and then decide on heat with pump/brew.  It does not have to be overwhelming or all done at once.  I actually started with a 1/32 DIN PID and changed after I figured out how to make it all work.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

The Auber kit I installed on my (230V) Gaggia uses a PID controller that will run off of the AC voltage inside the Gaggia - Auber lists it's power requirements as 85-260VAC or 85-360VDC

They make a DC powered one as well, but you should be able to find a mains powered one.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 2:05pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

My Auber PID controller is also AC powdered and as noted switches the output to the SSR to DC.  If you go with a DC SSR to use this function then you can use DC sources or additional AC-AC SSR for other functions.  I was not suggesting a DC PID be used.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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_aki
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 20
Location: London
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 5:36pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

Looking closely at the Amazon pictures it seems that the REX-C100 PID have two alarms.

I found a manual online and it says:

"First alarm N : No first alarm
A : Deviation high alarm *2
B : Deviation low alarm *2
C : Deviation high / low alarm *2 D : Band alarm
E : Deviation high alarm *3
F : Deviation low alarm *3
G : Deviation high / low alarm *3 H : Process high alarm *2
J : Process low alarm *2
K : Process high alarm *3
L : Process low alarm *3
R : Control loop break alarm *4"

It says the same about Alarm 2.

Does any of those mean that it support "lower limit alarm"?

Thanks,
_aki
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

The amazon pictures from your prior post are here

Click Here (www.amazon.co.uk)

If you look at the front and bask view of that PID you will find 10 screw posts.  The one side view will identify them and there is one alarm and one SSR output.  To confirm that, 2 posts for controller power, 3 posts for input devices or sensors, 2 posts for SSR output, and 2 alarm posts for 1 alarm.  9 used terminals of 10, with a non labeled and/or ground. There are spots for 2 terminals between top and bottom rows on each side.  My 1/16 DIN PID controller has 14 screw terminals, not all used of labeled, but you need anotaher ser for the second alarm.  Many of the manuals are multiuse, for the series of 1/16 controllers that a company produces.  Some of the generic PIDs have a picture on Ebay, for example, and there are a couple of different configurations that are available by the description under that picture.  They look the same, so be careful. From your description it looks like you are seeing a manual for a PID with 2 alarms.  Some PIDs can use 2 alarms or one alarm and 1 PID SSR and not 1 PID to SSR and 2 alarms in addition.  

Your description shows 2 alarms, but I can't tell if that is addition to the PID algorithm SSR output.  

I sent you the generic PDF on a 1/32 PID with 10 terminals and you can clearly see the functions figure 7 page 9.  To reiterate, 10 terminals on 1/32 or 1/16 DIN PIDs is not enough for SSR and in addition 2 alarms.  

Sorry if I am overdone in tryng to clarify that point, but be careful what you buy.

Also sorry that I cannot be totally clear with the alarm description that you posted.  I am most familiar with the language and alarm temperature functions used by Auber, and on the diagram sent.  Did the manual have a diagram of what the alarm functions similar to the TET pdf.  I had trouble with the various Auber 1/16 PIDs by description and learned "Auber speak." I also emailed Suyi at Auber to confirm function.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 7:34pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

A little more C100 info.

Click Here (www.homebrewtalk.com)

REX C100 has several submodels covered by one manual such as this

http://www.fmfranklin.com.au/products/data/rkc/c100inst.pdf

And a prior thread.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/579221

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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_aki
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 20
Location: London
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 6:59am
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

Hm, I might actually get this one. A bit more expensive but it seems to have everything I need?

Click Here (compare.ebay.co.uk)
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 2:43pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

Now you are looking at Auber PID controllers and you can go to Auber and get ideas for PIDs, boxes, sensors....

http://www.auberins.com/

There are several 1/16 DIN PIDs, I have the SYL 2362.  It is the least expensive, actually a few dollars less then the 2352 that you are considering.  I suggest that you go to the site and bring up those controllers and you can view the manual for each.  I did that split screen and compared.  I find the 2362 easier to understand and set up, particularly the alarm functons.  I looked at the UK Ebay site that you sent and the 2362 is also listed there with an obvious misprint of price.  It includes a K thermcouple with the standard bolt that does not work for Gaggia.  

Click Here (www.ebay.co.uk)

Email Auber for price and details.  I doubt that the Ebay price is any better than he will give you.  The 2352 can probably be set up the same, but its instructions are less clear to me.  You might look at the Gaggia RTD sensor while you are at the site, though you can probably use a washer type K thermocouple.  Auber also has SSRs, but nothing special, so you can beat their price especially on Ebay.  For me Auber was quick and easy, in the US.

You need to consider a project pox.  Unfortunately, I did not see a nice fit box for the 1/16 DIN PIDs, or they were expensive.  You can get an idea from the Auber site.  Some have used non-metallic boxes and cut their own hole.  Some of those boxes are inexpensive "project boxes" for electronics.  I elected to not use one.  The drawback of that is that you have the power supply to the PID exposed at the read. 120V has a little bite, and 240V, as I think you have, a bit more bite.  You can tape over or silicone, etc.  Just so you are aware.

Next you need consider obtaining wiring, spade fittings, and perhaps small power supplies.  Will you solder or crimp?

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 3:10pm
Subject: Re: Brand new Gaggia Classic leaking from the bottom left corner
 

Another difference on the 2352 vs the 2362 is the shared alarm lead #13 PID screw on 2352.  I am not sure how that would affect the use of alarms.  Perhaps another espresso will help me think or recall.  

In addition, I am not sure that both alarms can be absolute low alarms at the same time, it may be either can, not both.  IIRC, that is why I chose the 2362 after corresponding with Suyi at Auber.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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