emil3m Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Posts: 27 Location: New York Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 1:11am Subject: Help needed and will be appreciated!
Hi All!
I'll try to be very short, but please let me know if I can help you help me somehow.
I have never owned an espresso machine, so please consider that as you read on. As a holiday gift, I was "ordered" to buy an espresso maker. A friend recommended Nespresso Citiz w Milk. There are only a few days left to return the machine.
I'm not sure what I'm "supposed" to taste. It is a bit unusual for me to have such a small cup of coffee in the morning, so I will likely be using 2 shots (60cent ea). Reading these forums, it seems people really dislike this way of making espresso based drinks.
Questions:
What is a better way to go? staying around the $300 mark ($400-450 if REALLY necessary)
In terms of caffeine, how would 2 shots of espresso compare to a "regular cup"?
By your assessment, would you say that most of the advice here come from a purist standpoint? In other words, are Nespresso really just good at marketing? I'm trying to find a balance between the two opposites. On this site, the rejection is unanimous while elsewhere online the praise is unanimous (for the Citiz that is).
I really do appreciate your time and hope to get as many opinions/suggestions as possible!
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 3:52am Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
Your situation is not much different than mine. I was also using a stovetop espresso pot. I bought a Nespresso Pixie on the advice of a workmate but was disappointed in the coffee that it made. I came to realize that it would take 2 capsules to make a double-shot of espresso. That's over $1.20 a cup (have to pay for shipping too).
I returned the Pixie after 4 days and bought a Gaggia Classic for $350. Only had one day to make espresso in the Gaggia before I had to leave town on business. What it did make was far superior to what I was getting with the Pixie. My wife said it was the best cappuccino she ever had! FTR, I was using store ground Pete's Major Dickenson's blend that day.
EDIT: Had wrong price on Gaggia. It was $350 new from wholelattelove while on sale.
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 5:39am Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
The Nespresso is a pod machine, which doesn't really compare to using fresh ground coffee. My advice? Ditch this machine in a hurry and get a Saeco Aroma and the cheapest burr grinder you can find. Not only will the coffee taste better being ground before each shot with a pressurized basket, it will also cost you a lot less in the end. You can use any beans you like and don't have to buy expensive pods. If you ever want to upgrade, you can buy a nicer grinder and actually get a very nice naked portafilter to go with it, so there's room to grow with that setup. Aroma is $230, Baratza Encore (grinder) is $130, that places you at $360 and with better espresso than you'd get out of any pods (provided you buy fresh beans).
And yes, most of the people on here are espresso purists and have shiny metal cubes that equal a mortgage payment. However, they do know what they're talking about and really like to help newbies like yourself. I can tell you as an intermediate user that pod machines are designed for convenience only. Nespresso is good at marketing, yes. Real espresso machines require heavy duty parts that can't be cheaped out on and powerful pumps to push water through the coffee grounds. Making real espresso requires skill, technique and hours of practice. A pressurized portafilter (handle assembly) is the middle ground, in that you use fresh ground coffee, but do not need to learn to tamp and grind properly. The coffee isn't quite the insane, syrupy liquid gold that comes from a skilled barista, but it's miles ahead of pods.
A single espresso shot usually contains around 100 mg of caffeine, whereas an average cup of drip coffee (i.e. 5 oz) contains up to 120 mg
emil3m Said:
By your assessment, would you say that most of the advice here come from a purist standpoint? In other words, are Nespresso really just good at marketing? I'm trying to find a balance between the two opposites. On this site, the rejection is unanimous while elsewhere online the praise is unanimous (for the Citiz that is).
Most CoffeeGeeks are aficionados, and I suppose we tend to get carried away when gets to gourmet espresso.
However, irrespective of the quality of Nespresso coffee (which is not that bad for a convenience product) or the question whether it's really espresso or not (I strongly vote that it's not), it's an expensive cup compared to other ways of preparation.
I guess a Nespresso capsule is about as fresh as you can get with pre-ground coffee. And yes, it tastes better than stale drip coffee or coffee pad systems like Senseo. But it's still only an approximation of espresso, usually week bodied and with a fake crema. The dosis of coffee in a Nespresso capsule is way too low to qualify for espresso, to be specific 5 g per capsule, and the volume of a Nespresso cup of so called espresso is too high, 40 ml that is. You'd need a Nespresso ristretto, which is 25 ml, to even come close.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,655 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 9:32am Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
The others have pretty much said it all. If espresso is what you want and you do not mind doing the work that is required to get espresso from a lower class (basic starter class machine and starter grinder) then without delay take the pod machine back.
If however, you just want something to drink with the least fuss and involvement possible then keep what you have.
YMMV.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
emil3m Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Posts: 27 Location: New York Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 2:22pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
Hi All!
Thank you for all the info! To build on what you've told me, I thought to focus my query a bit further.
I will rarely be drinking espresso shots (maybe never). To get a dark cup of coffee in the morning before work, I'd need a very long or a double shot, right? That probably means that clearance is an issue with the Saeco Aroma mentioned above. I looked into the Gaggia and a lot of the reviews are not great. What stood out most to me was people saying the heat is lacking and that's important to me.
Do you think that paying more than double (compared to Citiz) for the automatic machines is worth it? Here are some examples I found overnight (but not limited to them): Saeco Odea Go Breville Barista Express Krups Espresseria
To sum up, this is basically down to making a hot strong cup of consistent quality every morning that yields about 6oz (I'm switching from a dark cup of drip, so prefer not to have 70% milk)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,655 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 2:49pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
As Steven said, add water to a standard double shot, do not try to pull longer shots, you will get nasty, over extracted swill, not coffee.
Super Auto machines like you linked to are all about ease of use, not good coffee. No we do not advise them, regardless of the price for 99% of the people, yours is not one of the times we would advise for one of those.
for a very strong 6 oz cup, pull a double shot (2 oz) then add 4 oz of hot water. done.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 3:42pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
We do speak Americano.
If you're just concerned about cup clearance, just pour your shot into a cup of hot water. The Aroma dispenses hot water through its steam wand. Americanos can be surprisingly rich and sweet. A superauto machine is very plasticky and very fragile and makes very mediocre espresso. If you just want a strong cup of coffee, and you're willing to shell out nearly half a grand, just grab a Bunn Trifecta MB. It's easy to use, lets you put a huge cup under the dispenser, and is customizable to your tastes.
emil3m Senior Member Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Posts: 27 Location: New York Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 6:15pm Subject: Re: Help needed and will be appreciated!
That's great info! Intuitively, I thought it would be better to run a longer shot rather than adding hot water, but now I know!
I can live with with pouring the shot out into a bigger cup with the Saeco Aroma. But what I like less is people raising concerns regarding the temperature the Aroma yields. Do you feel these claims are unjustified?
Any machines other than the Aroma and Gaggia come to mind? (the Bunn Trifecta is an interesting choice, but i'll table that for now)
Kat from SeattleCoffeeGear just told me that the Breville Barista Express is not a "superauto" like the other two machines. However, it yielded 130 degree shot whereas the Krups shot measured at 195. I'm assuming the point is the Breville simply has a dedicated grinder, but the boiler is not the best.
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