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Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
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CrazyFin
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2012
Posts: 5
Location: SWEDEN
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 8:38am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

TriHard Said:

My machine looks exactly like the picture with the gap.  Doesn't bother me and I don't think is an issue in any way.

I do not understand your pressure level falling...does it happen during a shot?  I haven't seen that but I haven't had mine very long.

Posted November 8, 2012 link


The gap is not a problem actually. According to Andrew @ Rocket, the gap is fully normal and another user at a Swedish forum explained that the reason for this is to not transfer too much heat to the brewing group (eventhough it should be warm).

Andrew also explained the following when I had email him a short video showing my brewing lever falling back down few seconds after brewing has started:

"The problem is that the group lever cam has too much lubrication on it and therefore is 'rolling' closed very easily. If you remove the group lever and then undo the big 26MM nut that holds the cam inside the group you will be able to clean some of the lubricant away and then reassemble. this should fix the problem"

IŽll remove the lever and remove excess lubrication during the weekend to see if this fixes the problem. IŽll get back with a report.
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TriHard
Senior Member
TriHard
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket R58
Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh
Posted Tue Nov 13, 2012, 8:35am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

VDelgado Said:

IŽve made some tests with a Scace thermometer and it takes 45min for the R58 to get to 100% temperature, in 20 min you get about 95%. The fact that the boiler got to temperature doesn't mean the nose is hot enough.

Posted October 7, 2012 link

So I am curious.  I assume that when you say in 20 mins you get about 95% of the temperature, that means that the rest of the machine is still not warm enough that if you were to pull a shot at lets say a target temperature of 198 degrees (from the chart in the book), you would only get a shot that comes out at 188 degrees.  So, that makes me think, IN THEORY (not that you would desire to do this but just as a point of discussion), couldn't you set your boiler temperature higher to compensate, like a target of 210 degrees to try and pull a shot of close to 200 degrees?  Most people are willing to wait the time or use the machine on a timer, but lets say for the impatient person who has a surprise guest that comes over and wants coffee and you don't have the 45 minutes to wait, would this be a quick and dirty technique that might not be perfect, but could be serviceable?
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Augsburg57
Senior Member
Augsburg57
Joined: 3 Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Seattle and Tucson
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket R58
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Type A
Posted Fri Nov 16, 2012, 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

TriHard Said:

So I am curious.  I assume that when you say in 20 mins you get about 95% of the temperature, that means that the rest of the machine is still not warm enough that if you were to pull a shot at lets say a target temperature of 198 degrees (from the chart in the book), you would only get a shot that comes out at 188 degrees.  So, that makes me think, IN THEORY (not that you would desire to do this but just as a point of discussion), couldn't you set your boiler temperature higher to compensate, like a target of 210 degrees to try and pull a shot of close to 200 degrees?  Most people are willing to wait the time or use the machine on a timer, but lets say for the impatient person who has a surprise guest that comes over and wants coffee and you don't have the 45 minutes to wait, would this be a quick and dirty technique that might not be perfect, but could be serviceable?

Posted November 13, 2012 link

I have a Rocket R58 and I usually pull my first shot about 30 to 40 minutes after it is turned on by a timer.  (I am set to a 203 F brew temp.)  However, there are times I turn it on manually mid-day and I sometimes only wait about 20 minutes to let it heat up.  I think 99% of people would be hard pressed to tell the difference in the 40 minute shots vs. the 20 minute heat up shots if compared side-by-side.  Both are excellent.

Regarding your question, I think turning the temp up will just mean it takes longer to get to the specified temperature.  The brew boiler heat is turned on in any case and it will take "X" many minutes to get up to a particular temp.  Ditto for the brew head getting up to temp.  Another way to put this, is that turning the temp up does not increase the wattage of the heating element.  Therefore, the brew boiler will not heat any faster with the temp turned up.
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uziduzit
Senior Member
uziduzit
Joined: 15 Oct 2012
Posts: 22
Location: Brockton
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Nov 17, 2012, 11:20am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

I have a E61 Grouphead on my Expobar machine and the manual states the minimal warmup time is 35 minutes.
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TriHard
Senior Member
TriHard
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket R58
Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 7:57pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

Augsburg57 Said:

I have a Rocket R58 and I usually pull my first shot about 30 to 40 minutes after it is turned on by a timer.  (I am set to a 203 F brew temp.)  However, there are times I turn it on manually mid-day and I sometimes only wait about 20 minutes to let it heat up.  I think 99% of people would be hard pressed to tell the difference in the 40 minute shots vs. the 20 minute heat up shots if compared side-by-side.  Both are excellent.

Regarding your question, I think turning the temp up will just mean it takes longer to get to the specified temperature.  The brew boiler heat is turned on in any case and it will take "X" many minutes to get up to a particular temp.  Ditto for the brew head getting up to temp.  Another way to put this, is that turning the temp up does not increase the wattage of the heating element.  Therefore, the brew boiler will not heat any faster with the temp turned up.

Posted November 16, 2012 link

Since the brew boiler gets up to temperature way before the machine itself heats up, I disagree.  I know my brew boiler says it reaches its temperature in well under 30 mins, and it doesn't seem to matter what temperature I set it to.  Just doesn't take that long to heat up.  The tons of medal in the group however, that is what takes time!

It would be very interesting to have 2 R58s side by side and pull shots at 20 mins on one and 45 mins on the other and compare them directly.
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369
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Australia
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012, 4:47am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

This is my first post here and G'day from Australia! I'm a long time coffee addict but some what new to high end semi-professional machines.

After reading 19 pages of mixed reviews on the R58, I'm now sitting on the fence about my R58 purchase. I remembered being so excited about this machine just a few weeks ago :( On one hand I desperately want an upgrade and would be happy to pay extra for a nice DB machine but on the other side I'm concerned about the "unproven" reliability of this new machine.

Just wondering if there are any other new(er) R58 owners here.. would you mind sharing your experience so far? I'm hoping the latest batch of R58s are more reliable..

Do you guys think the R58 is still in the early stage / early adopter period or would now be a "safer" time to buy after several minor revisions including the boiler sensor upgrade?
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pcguy74
Senior Member
pcguy74
Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 9
Location: Oshkosh, WI, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket R58, Bodum Press,...
Grinder: Nouva Simonelli MDX
Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012, 2:38pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

Well, you've read my 2 cents worth already but I'm just confirming that as an owner of one of the first machines, with the little "issues" (which I haven't fixed, nor have I asked Seattle Coffee Gear or Rocket do fix)...I would buy this machine again, and again, and again.  It totally outperforms (for me) my old Nuova Mac Cup V (single group pro machine, but old).  Anyone who has tried any coffee in this machine has remarked about how good it is...so the machine is the constant!  We are basically consuming a bit more espresso than previously because it's so dang good.  Instead of a single shot each for my wife and I we are now up to a single for me in the AM, a single for both of us in the afternoon, and a double for her in the AM.  That's basically a 50% increase...and the only thing that changed was the machine.  We love it!  As an early adopter, I just think about all the great espresso everyone else has missed out on sitting on the fence.  I'm still in line for a Nocturn machine from ZPM (another early adopter) and I'm thinking that'll be the machine that sits on the counter for house guests who pop in often but don't know how to use the "big machine" or don't want to wait for it to warm up.  Early adopting has it's price, for me it's been the consumption of more coffee...I'm never looking back!!!
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MartyRey
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 9
Location: Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rockett Espresso R58
Grinder: Baratza Varo
Roaster: iRoast2
Posted Mon Nov 26, 2012, 6:42pm
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

I purchased the R58 in June and have made espresso with it pretty much every single day over the past 5 months. Would I buy it again? Yes. Knowing what I do now, do I wish I had saved $500 and purchased the Rocket Expresso HX machine such as the Cellini .. hmmm ... probably I'd still lean to the R58 but not strongly. There are some advantages and disadvantages to each, but they are minor ..and subtle. I have talked with the owner of Rocket in Milan and he is suprisingly very accessbile and reponsive. I think they have slightly evolved the design such that  the boiler temp probe has less mass and is therefore faster to react. I think they changed the level sensor so that it doesn't refill the boiler with cold water until a larger amount has been discharged for hot water or steam. Also, I think they changed the programming logic of the PID for the steam boiler so that it goes up to full power sooner (like a pressure stat system would) with a drop in temp. All of this would make this minor issue better.

What I wish they would do in the next generation is to put on a three way toggle switch for the power switch that would allow someone to just turn on the brewer boiler alone (middle position) or both boilers (full on position). I also wish they would alter the desgin so that the steam boiler would be controlled by a pressure stat and the brew boiler by a PID. This would allow the steam boiler to have the heating element fullly energized as soon as pressure was release with using steam (thereby making it more robust) as opposed to having to wait for the temp to fall before the PID starts to energize the heating element (making steam weaker). I'm a compulsive person and reading this I'd worry about the R58. However, practially speaking, I have made steamed coffee drinks for groups of 6 wtih no problem. Any delay in steam pressure just requires a 30 - 60 second wait before it fully recovers. It really is more of a minor issue.

The machine is beatiful in design and construction. It makes damn good espresso. It is solid. If you want a great machine for Down Under .. this woudl fit the bill.
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TriHard
Senior Member
TriHard
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket R58
Grinder: Compak K10 Fresh
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 6:50am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

Hi Everyone,

This morning for the 2nd time in the now month that I have owned the R58 I have had a strange occurrence whereby I lift the lever all the way to pull my shot and the pump does not engage.  The first time it happened (a week ago) I thought perhaps I didn't push the lever all the way up and instead had it in the middle position, but that was not the case.  In both instances, I tried letting some steam out and then trying again but to no avail.  I waited a few seconds and tried turning it on and off and lifting the lever up and down a couple of times and then all of a sudden it starts working.  I had to dump the shot as even though the pump didn't engage, it was in pre-infusion mode as the grinds were soaked.  Both times after it started working again, I had no problems and it pulled great shots.  Was able to backflush afterwards, etc.

Has anyone else experienced this "issue"?  Afterwards I thought that maybe I should have checked to see how the lever was touching the button to see that it was fully pushed in.  Any thoughts on what else it could be?
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plevin
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Jul 2012
Posts: 1
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 8:14am
Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
 

TriHard Said:

Hi Everyone,

This morning for the 2nd time in the now month that I have owned the R58 I have had a strange occurrence whereby I lift the lever all the way to pull my shot and the pump does not engage.  The first time it happened (a week ago) I thought perhaps I didn't push the lever all the way up and instead had it in the middle position, but that was not the case.  In both instances, I tried letting some steam out and then trying again but to no avail.  I waited a few seconds and tried turning it on and off and lifting the lever up and down a couple of times and then all of a sudden it starts working.  I had to dump the shot as even though the pump didn't engage, it was in pre-infusion mode as the grinds were soaked.  Both times after it started working again, I had no problems and it pulled great shots.  Was able to backflush afterwards, etc.

Has anyone else experienced this "issue"?  Afterwards I thought that maybe I should have checked to see how the lever was touching the button to see that it was fully pushed in.  Any thoughts on what else it could be?

Posted November 27, 2012 link

Yes, have had the same experience, though I waited a minute and tried again. Then it was fine. So didn't pursue it further.
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