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How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > How to measure...  
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
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Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Jan 12, 2013, 5:45pm
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

I don't know if Ill ever get there.... made a shot tonight with same timing but it yielded 35 grams instead of 30. It was ok but nothing special.

I am beginning to think I don't like "good coffee". The best coffee I ever had came off of my old cheapo espresso I had years ago. I remember sitting at work anticipating my arrival at home to have an espresso drink back then. I have not had that experience with the last two espresso machines I have had.
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
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Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sat Jan 12, 2013, 6:59pm
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

I would give it at least a few weeks of getting consistent results.  Right now you have not had one day of consistent results.

 
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Sat Jan 12, 2013, 7:00pm
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

Also the beans change over time.  Maybe you don't like the beans you have right now.  Even if they are the same brand you liked before....

 
Coffeenoobie

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DeanOK
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DeanOK
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Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:40am
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

This morning was 40 grams with same draw time. There was a bit of blonding toward the end (very little) but it was actually better than the one I had last night. I was expecting it to not be so good.
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Coffeenoobie
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Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:08pm
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

It will get better as you get more consistent.  I promise.

 
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diggi
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Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 1:59pm
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

I'm not really sure what you are doing with the scale and shot weight. It is useless to measure, unless you are using that data in some way to change what you do with the next shot. Take what you have so far. At first you were making extraction strengths >50% (Ie: 18g to make 30g) and as you changed the strength closer to 50%, you improved the shot.  So I'd aim for around 50% strength for starters, then adjust as necessary. So if you want a 30g shot, use 15g of beans, or if you want to use 18g of beans, make a 36g shot.
 If you are finding the shots are bitter/overextracted (also evidenced by dark crema rim), then either increase your dose (18 is plenty big for starters), or shorten the pull. Since you are in the ristretto range anyway, I'd coarsen the grind a bit, and stop the shot sooner (when you reach the 50% strength) rather than going for long extractions that force you to grind finer and worsen your problem.  This advice is just to get you started. Is not set in stone and can change as you get more comfortable with things....but that is how you could start to get things heading in the right direction.
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
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Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 2:56pm
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

Nailing down all the variable to things I could measure made it easier to see what the little adjustments did.

Weighing the shots made it so I could compare the output and make it consistent.  Volume doesn't do that with espresso because of the crema.  i.e. Same grind + .5 g added grounds = x number of seconds to the pull before my shot blonds etc.  By doing that my pulls improved greatly and fast and I really understand how to adjust my shots to do what needs to be done to get the output I want. Before I got the scale I was really all over the place and I could not nail down what I was doing wrong.

Start with a grind and weight and stop the pull at 27 seconds then adjust things slowly till you get a good tasting shot pulled in 25-27 range at about 50%.  

Right now with blue Jag from red bird I am getting very close to 50% ratio with 19 g at 25 - 27 seconds.

 
Coffeenoobie

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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 649
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 8:40pm
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

I know you guys/gals are trying to help me, but I am not sure how much you can help when I can't diagnose what the issue is. I will say I am much better off than I was a few weeks ago, but I can't tell sour  from bitter. I can't really describe what I think is a perfect taste, but I know it when I taste it and out of the hundreds of shots i have done the last few months, I have had two that I thought were great.  Some were terribly bitter (or maybe it was sour) and most were just ok.

I coarsened the grind and got 32 grams in 26 seconds. It was different, not as much bitter (as I would describe it), but also not the after taste I like.... maybe even a little bland. The shots I really like have what I call a "nutty" after taste that lasts a while. I don't know if my description matches with convention or not, but that is what I call it.

I have been running my boiler temp a little hotter the last week or so after I made some temperature tests. It is my feeling that the water cools off a bit before it actually hits the puck, so I turned the temperature up from 200 to 203. Not sure I can tell the difference and not sure what hotter temperature would actually do to the taste.

To add even more confusion, I went to the coffee shop that is considered the best in my area and ordered my favorite latte a few weeks ago. This was an attempt to test my pallet and see if I still knew what good coffee tasted like. I poured it in my flower bed when I got home... so maybe I don't have the same pallet as everyone else. The professionally prepared latte tasted like flavored steamed milk to me.
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:46pm
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

Consistently hit the targets outlined for a few days in a row and I believe things will change for you.  I am not sure I can tell sour from bitter in espresso either.  And many good shops around can't pull a great shot all the time and some never do.

I can tell you if you learn to hit the target every time, consistently you be able to tweak it till you get something you like almost every time.  I have very few sink shots now. I can't tell you how many I tossed when I first started.

Are you really using Jura Capresso ENA 4?  That is an automatic machine and you really can't expect too much from it because it limits you a lot.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 649
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 3:30am
Subject: Re: How to measure shot yield - then work on taste
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

Are you really using Jura Capresso ENA 4?  That is an automatic machine and you really can't expect too much from it because it limits you a lot.

Posted January 13, 2013 link

No, I gave the Jura to my son (he likes it).

I am using a CC1 and Vario W.
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