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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Gaggia Baby Twin...  
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qu1nn
Senior Member
qu1nn
Joined: 3 Jan 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Buffalo, NY
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia New Baby 06 Twin
Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 7:49pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

Well I totally took apart the baby (new baby06 twin) and the inside the housing of the thermoblock (for steam) the area was moist (the foam & the interior of the base housing), however my connections were all good.  It appears as if it was leaking near one of the oetikers at the input or output of the thermoblock  The contacts for the thermoblock didnt have corrosion.  I measured a resistance of 15.1 Ohms across it (I dont know if that is a "good" value or not)
I dont have a kit so I just used a plastic tie wrap and cranked it down.  I put the entire device back together and I had no change.

When running hot water I got approx 7.5 oz of hot water in 30s. Which if my math is right about 230cc, so I am a bit shy of the 300cc in 30s.

I also went through and took the boiler apart.  there was some mild corrosion in a section which I cleaned up with a brillo pad.  Rinsed and put it all back together... again NO change.  I think I will order myself an oetiker kit, some spare tubing, and a new thermoblock / steam stat and try that next...unless there is some additional suggestions.


Question.  When the hot water is ON is it still flowing from the main boiler into the steam thermoblock ( the block is just not powered) and then out the wand?
(I could compare the power draw of hot water vs steam to see if it is being powered up)

qu1nn: IMG_20130103_182459 small.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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qu1nn
Senior Member
qu1nn
Joined: 3 Jan 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Buffalo, NY
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia New Baby 06 Twin
Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 8:11pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

did a current draw test:

Mode

warming up, heater element icon blinking = 10.35A
heating element icon solid = 0.06A

hot water, running = 10.77A

water through group head = 1A

Steam mode:
heater element icon solid, other icons blinking = 7.3 A
then it drops to 0.2A

So is the problem the thermostat (175 deg, Gaggia PN 189428300)?
Click Here (shop.partsguru.com)


regards
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,979
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 8:29pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

The tubing and clamps are the common leak in the Twin and Baby.  

Very nice boiler clean up.

I have not seen a resistance value listed.  Re-arranging V=IR and W=VA gives R= (V X V)/W or R = (120 X 120)/1440 or 10A.  I have seen various Watts for the element down to about 1350, so 15A is about correct.  That assumes that I remember and calculate correctly.

Your flow is probably good as the 10 ml/sec is unrestricted flow and the system through the wand is some resistance.

I am just reasoning as you are about hot water and the thermoblock off.  If on, then the hot water would steam.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,979
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Jan 3, 2013, 8:38pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

I was slow coming up with the formulas and calculation and see that you reposted.  Looks like the resistance of 10 calculated is about correct :)

Not so sure about the tstat.  It should be on or off, so the resistance should not be in the middle based on the tstat.  I think the bimetal changes temperature range over time on some, but still on or off, just a different rangse

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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ElvisVoltare
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Boulder City, NV
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Jan 4, 2013, 9:35am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

I'm planning to get my Twin back together this weekend.  I'll let you know if the steam problem gets fixed with the boiler rehab. D4F might be right; my steam issue might be separate from the clogging caused by exfoliated aluminum corrosion in the boilder, but we'll see.

Just as a side note, read what D4F posted about water (specifically RO) in these machines. And also, I'm not sure that descaling for a long period of time with high temperture is wize for these boilers; aluminum exposed to either acidic or basic (alkaline) aqueous conditions is apparently bad news. When I got my Twin is had a terrible chemical smell to the water (probably form all the plastics used), which is apparently not that uncommon.  A few flushes with Urnex cleanncaf didn't work, so they suggested that I let the stuff saok in the machine.  I wouldn't be surpised if this was the beginning of my problems, but I have no evidence. The smell finally went away, but the chronic problems began about 6 months later.

Hope it works out for you.  If it does and mine doesn't, I'll be asking you for some advice.  Cheers.

Maybe we should start a baby twin support group...
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D4F
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,979
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Fri Jan 4, 2013, 9:58am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

Hmmm support group for twin babies is "mothers of multiples"  IIRC, but I guess that is different twins and different babies :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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ElvisVoltare
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Boulder City, NV
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 8:06am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

Well your were right, D4F

Cleaning the boiler didn't solve the other issues (running out of steam, blinking of all the lights on the keypad after a short duration of brewing or steaming). Neddless to say, it was aeropress again this weekend.

What was interesting is that the problem changed slightly after the boilder clean-out. Now it seems to take much longer to heat up, both initially and between cycles (heating element light blinking).  When the light goes off and I hit the brew switch, the water coming out of the brew head seem too hot (lots of steam!).  Similar with the steaming; long time for the heating light to go off, then tremendous amount of steam that only last a little while (before everything is blinking again and steam runs out). Think I could have a thermostat issue like qu1nn might?

Qu1nn, how did your adventure go?

One thing I did notice when replacing the boilder after cleaning (and I don't know if this is significant or not) was that one of the heating element contacts on the boiler (I'm calling them "pins" where the light blue electrical leads connect) was loose.  Didn't really notice this before removal and I'm not sure if it makes a difference (boilder appears to be heating up). I was able to get the lead connected snugly back on, but where the "pin" emerges from the boiler heating element, it is able to move in and out a bit, where the other "pins" seem to be held firmly inplace by what looks like a bit a ceramic insulation.  I believe that the connect is still good, but was wondering if this is normal for one of the connection pins or not since you just had your boilder in hand, qu1nn? If not could this be the problem (or an additional one)?

In any case, I'd Love to hear about your experience with this fix.

I'm gettting ready to kick mine down the stairs...
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D4F
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,979
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:26am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

Since the element carries the load current, a loose connection can't be a good thing.  You can test resistance.  You can try to determine if you have a hot spot at that loose connection.  The boilers are usually good and the thermoblock and its tubing connections fail.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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ElvisVoltare
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Boulder City, NV
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 1:38pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

Thanks, I'll check it out.  I don't think there's a problem with the connection from the lead to the pin - that seemed solid and tight, not loose.  The pin that attaches to the actual heating element (which I assume has a coil of some sort of wire inside it to provide electrical resistance and heat) moves a bit.  It still feels like its connected to the coil inside, but I'll check to make sure. Could be broken inside where I can't see, arrghh!

Do you know if you change out these heating elements (looks like it might be more of a pain anyway), or do you have to buy the whole boiler as one piece? Thanks again.

Gregg
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qu1nn
Senior Member
qu1nn
Joined: 3 Jan 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Buffalo, NY
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia New Baby 06 Twin
Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 3:36pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

Ugh!
My adventure is an epic FAIL.


Parts Diagram Link:
Click Here (www.wholelattelove.com)


Well I replaced the thermostat (175 deg, Gaggia PN 189428300)... on the schematic Part #65
Click Here (shop.partsguru.com)

and I have no change, well now I guess I start to gather my spare parts!
Does anyone have any suggestions?

My next guess is what looks similar to item #19 (Fuse Part No DM1040) pressing up on the boiler assembly, but it is unlabeled on the parts diagram between item #65 and thermoblock #63
I am assuming it is another Fuse, but I am unsure of the part number.
Any suggestions would be great!

ElvisVoltaire:  I didnt pull or dug on the physical pins of the thermoblock Part #63.... all I did was disconnect the wire and reconnect.  I didnt notice any movement of the pin vs the ceramic or vs the metal of the thermalblock.  I did measure the resistance to be about 15 ohms.
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