splur Senior Member Joined: 27 Dec 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Canada Expertise: Just starting
Posted Thu Dec 27, 2012, 5:07pm Subject: Beginner looking for suggestions
I know, I'm sure one of these pop up every day, I've read a couple already. I debated whether to hijack an existing one or make my own, I went with making my own thread for input (sorry). I've recently discovered the world of espressos and espresso-based drinks; although I have been drinking them for ages at Starbucks without thinking about how they actually make it. Before you suggest I spend thousands of dollars; my espresso pallet is as defined as the next average person. I need to stop my expensive habit of going to Starbucks every day.
What I've already learned so far: - Grinder is key, machine is almost secondary to it. - $500 dollars simply isn't enough for a good espresso (too bad) - Boiler over thermoblock (proper temperature believability and stability) - Manual over fully automatic (more cons towards a fully automatic)
Unfortunately, every review for any grinder or espresso machine I've read have had both amazing reviews and the worst reviews possible. This goes for anything from the 60$ Mr. Coffee espresso maker to the 700$ Rancilio Silvia. The reviews range even more for grinders.
What I care about: - Not having to replace the damn thing within a year of purchase, if I'm paying more money, I want it to last. - Not requiring modification, like all those DIY make your cheap burr grinder better guides. - Ease; I don't mind a manual espresso maker, but I don't want to be cleaning it weekly or having to worry about stuff like that.
My budget: ~$500-600
Usage: Most likely at the moment 100% espresso which I may frequently dilute to make an Americano separately. However, I will most likely delve into creating some other drinks with the espresso, so the milk frother would be important.
My considerations The machine: Gaggia Classic ($389, aluminum boiler concerns me, but seems solid otherwise) Gaggia New Baby ($299, cheaper made?) Breville BRE800ESXL ($295) Le'Lit PL041 ($429) - added
The grinder: Gaggia MDF ($249) Baratza Preciso ($239 refurb) LeLit PL53 ($269) Rancilio Rocky ($339, way overbudget, would require a cheaper espresso machine)
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Dec 27, 2012, 5:44pm Subject: Re: Beginner looking for suggestions
I guess you don't realize but all coffee machines have to be cleaned. I back flush daily and soak the screens weekly.
The only grinder that I would recommend off your list is Baratza Preciso ($239 refurb). Gaggia classic would be the only single boiler I would get off your list but you will have to learn the temp surf.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
splur Senior Member Joined: 27 Dec 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Canada Expertise: Just starting
Posted Thu Dec 27, 2012, 6:13pm Subject: Re: Beginner looking for suggestions
Coffeenoobie Said:
I guess you don't realize but all coffee machines have to be cleaned. I back flush daily and soak the screens weekly.
The only grinder that I would recommend off your list is Baratza Preciso ($239 refurb). Gaggia classic would be the only single boiler I would get off your list but you will have to learn the temp surf.
I'm okay with that kind of cleaning, I was more talking about dismantling and doing a thorough clean. Do you clean your grinders regularly even if you don't switch beans?
I'm considering shelling out a bit more on either the grinder or machine, maybe a Baratza Vario. I'm assuming by previous advice, shelling out on a grinder would be more beneficial than the machine, but in the case between a Preciso and Vario, is it worth it for a beginner or is it a waste? (like someone buying a 1000$ video card to play tetris on the computer)
All of the SBDU machines will benefit from a PID for temperature control. If in not necessary to start, and you may learn more without it initially. It is a great upgrade.
Preciso refurb as noted. Vario refurb if you want to splurge.
Yeah, I'm really considering the Vario even if it bumps me up in the 700$ range. If it lasts and makes good espresso grind then I'm willing to invest. I wish I could convince myself to just shell out on a proper machine that didn't require temperature surfing, but that would push me into the 1000$ range!
So currently gaggia classic and baratza vario ($388 + $360)
Comments on a Le'Lit PL041? Worth the extra 50$ over the gaggia classic?
Would anyone be able to suggest a machine w/ grinder alternative in the same price range? Or is that frowned upon? I mean the idea of having the grinder built in would be awesome to save space and increase convenience, but all the reviews I've read on the lower end machine/grinder combos (mostly retail) are that the grinders don't even grind fine enough (why in the world would they build in a grinder that wasn't sufficient?)
Posted Thu Dec 27, 2012, 8:36pm Subject: Re: Beginner looking for suggestions
It may help to look at it like this- if you go with the Preciso, then when the time comes that you start looking for an HX machine you will most likely be looking to upgrade the grinder as well. with the Vario it would not be an issue.
"Manual" is a machine with NO PUMP. A "full automatic" differs from a semi-automatic ONLY in that the water flow shuts off by itself after a pre-programmed volume of water has been dispensed through the group head.
splur Senior Member Joined: 27 Dec 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Canada Expertise: Just starting
Posted Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:11pm Subject: Re: Beginner looking for suggestions
(
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
Close, but no cigar.
"Manual" is a machine with NO PUMP. A "full automatic" differs from a semi-automatic ONLY in that the water flow shuts off by itself after a pre-programmed volume of water has been dispensed through the group head.
Posted Fri Dec 28, 2012, 7:10am Subject: Re: Beginner looking for suggestions
I was in your same quandry not too long ago. I ended up spending a little more (and admittedly taking a bit of a risk) with a Crossland CC1. I like it, but it is out of your price range. In making the decision, I did pick up a used Gaggia Classic and test-drive both. (I figured I could always return the CC1 or resell the Classic.)
The Classic is a charming little machine. The build / appearance is a little dated - the cover isn't firmly attached to the inner components, such that there is a little flex. Its hard to describe - the Classic feels sturdy and solid, it just has flex in the case. The Breville I was replacing had no flex to the parts, but did not feel as substantial.
The Classic Case, with it's open reveals, does allow for any moisture that may build up inside it to air-dry. The cup warmer does a good job (the Crossland Cup warmer is a joke.) It's got some annoyances - the steam knob is perfectly smooth, which can be hard to work with damp hands. It also has a stock panarello, which may or may not be to your liking. The boiler heats up very quickly, but I run some water through the portafilter to heat it up.
The best part is they are plentiful supply as refurbs or used. When/if you tire of it you can probably unload the Classic and lose almost nothing.
As far as grinders go, I picked up a used Rocky doserless for under $250. I had no grinder before, so to me the improvement has been night and day. I wouldn't kick it out of the running if you can get a good deal on one, but I probably wouldn't buy it new when there are other grinders just a good or better for the same money.
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