D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,194 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:47pm Subject: Re: Upgrading to HX or dual boiler machine
Sounds like you have become handy as well as being a trouble shooter :) I like to figure the cost of acquiring skills offsets the expense of the project. My wife is not so sure, but I tell myself that.
Posted Wed Dec 26, 2012, 12:11pm Subject: Re: Upgrading to HX or dual boiler machine
GlenO Said:
Charity, I went through a similar decision process about nine months ago when I was looking to upgrade from my Silvia of five years. My usage is similar to yours based on your initial post (i.e., usually just myself, occasionally a second person and even more occasionally 3 to 4 people). After weeks of reviewing online information, reviews, posts on this site and other coffee sites as well as conversations with two different vendors, I narrowed my search down to the Rocket Cellini Premium Plus and its closest equivalent in the Quickmill familly, the Andreja, which is Anita's big sister. Both are solid machines with equivalent quality components and similar fit and finish. I preferred the looks of the Rocket and with a newer house with an open floor plan and a kitchen with other stainless steel appliances, looks are important to me. There's nothing wrong with that. In the Andreja's favor was its ability to be plumbed in if one purchased the optional plumb kit. When I was able to purchase V1 Rocket at a closeout price, the Rocket won out. The steaming ability of the Rocket is more than adequate. I'm sure I would have been just as happy with the performance of the Quckmiill.
As far as not being able to plumb in the Premium Plus, for me it has been a non-issue. As I mentioned, my usage is typically quite light. And I've been pleasantly surprised how minimal a flush is required to get the Rocket to proper brew temperature. Light usage plus minimal flushing means less water, obviously. I've gotten into the habit of topping off the reservoir as part of my daily cleaning/maintenance routine, but know I could often go two, perhaps three days without needing to refill if I chose. Of course, I'm sure if I were plumbed in, I'd love the convenience.
If you do go the HX, E-61 route, I would recommend getting a brew head thermometer (i.e, "Eric's Thermometer"). It helped me immensely getting my flush routine down. And even now that I have a pretty good understanding of how the Rocket behaves, I find myself using the thermometer daily.
One last note, if you're open to purchasing a product return, following the holidays there are likely to be quite a few returns to vendors, with customers taking advantage of the 30-day, no questions asked return privilege. The machines carry a full warranty and usually can be had with substantial savings. That might keep you closer to your $1500 budget. Look for "Buyer's Remorse" items at Chris Coffee and "Open Box" items at Seattle Coffee Gear (and I'm assuming other vendors would have something similar).
I didn't see this when I posted before; thank you so much for sharing your experience. I've been looking more and more at the Rocket. It and the Andreja are basically at the same price point, and seem to have nearly identical features. I'm going to talk to my husband about how easy or hard it would be to plumb in a machine with a filter attached, since I vastly prefer filtered water for my coffee. That may end up being the deciding factor for me, we'll see. I won't be able to pull the trigger on a new machine until probably February/March, so sadly the after-Christmas returns will probably not help me, but I'll check them out. :)
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Dec 26, 2012, 12:15pm Subject: Re: Upgrading to HX or dual boiler machine
Charity, I dare say anyone who has a machine plumbed directly into the water supply has a filter and a water softener as well. Look here for one example; it's what I use.
Posted Wed Dec 26, 2012, 2:04pm Subject: Re: Upgrading to HX or dual boiler machine
CharityV Said:
I'm going to talk to my husband about how easy or hard it would be to plumb in a machine with a filter attached, since I vastly prefer filtered water for my coffee. That may end up being the deciding factor for me, we'll see. I won't be able to pull the trigger on a new machine until probably February/March, so sadly the after-Christmas returns will probably not help me, but I'll check them out. :)
A filter is definitely a good idea, and - to some extent depending on the type of pump in the machine you decide to buy - a pressure regulator may be also. As to whether to have a softener as has been suggested - based on the recommendation from my machine's manufacturer - not necessarily.
If you live in a soft water area as I do, the strong advice I received was not to soften further "just in case" as it can make the water Ph unstable (I'm guessing, over-acidic).
They provided a filter system with the machine (Brita professional), which can have either a softening filter or a simple filter installed in it, so I take their advice as being impartial and well informed, and have always installed/replaced with the latter type.
There is however, heaps of water-related information on this and other forums if you really want to dig into it to make a better informed decision....and have the time to do so ;o)
I don't know anything in detail about US domestic plumbing, but I'd guess that for anyone reasonably handy it would be easy to do provided you can get the water supply to the machine area, which is the problem many folk have.
I guess this depends on the circumstances. Just keep in mind, water filtration systems can do more harm than good if the filter isn't regularly changed.
The taste of the water itself can certainly affect the flavor of the coffee. If you like how your tap water tastes and you are on utility, I wouldn't see a need for a filtration system if you need to install a water softening system. If one is on well water with a high sulfur content for example, then I can see the need for one being absolutely mandatory in addition to a water softening system. I know a few people who have that issue.
Even though I've never had issues with debris coming through my own pipes here, I would have at least one of these systems in place, either a water softening or a filtration system. Since a water softening system has to filter out plastic resins anyway, it should be good enough to filter out any debris coming through the pipes which could cause havoc with your machine. Has anyone else on this board had issues with plastic resins getting into their machine at all?
__________ Said:
depending on the type of pump in the machine you decide to buy - a pressure regulator may be also.
I would personally recommend sticking with a rotary pump machine if plumbing in is something you'd be thinking about later on. The cost difference to convert a vibe pump machine to plumbed-in operation and to buy an additional pressure regulator is very close to what it would cost to buy a plumb-able rotary machine to begin with.
In my case, I was comparing a Quickmill Anita with a plumb-in kit and pressure regulator to a Quickmill Vetrano.. It didn't really make any sense from an economic point of view.
I think most folk would take the requirement to replace filters as a given. Helpfully, some machines can be set up to remind you to do so.
qualin Said:
I would personally recommend sticking with a rotary pump machine if plumbing in is something you'd be thinking about later on. The cost difference to convert a vibe pump machine to plumbed-in operation and to buy an additional pressure regulator is very close to what it would cost to buy a plumb-able rotary machine to begin with.
Posted Sat Dec 29, 2012, 10:38pm Subject: Re: Upgrading to HX or dual boiler machine
Wow. So I'm sure this is not the intent of any of these helpful posts, but I'm actually leaning towards a non-plumb-able machine just because plumbing it is starting to sound so complicated! And really, refilling the water reservoir is only a minor irritant for me, I suppose. But since it looks like we'll be staying in our house for the long haul, plumbing in made long-term sense.
Posted Sat Dec 29, 2012, 11:03pm Subject: Re: Upgrading to HX or dual boiler machine
Plumbing a machine is not that difficult at all. These two articles on my website document the planning and implementation of the system: see: http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/water1.html and: http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/water2.html
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