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cuznvin
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Joined: 6 Oct 2011
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:49pm
Subject: Stainless vs Copper
 

I am wondering if it makes that big of a difference if some companies are using stainless vs copper boilers. On the Dream T, the brew boiler is copper (actually a combo of brass, copper and stainless) and the steam boiler is stainless. Is this a cost saving measure?  should I only consider buying machines that use two copper boilers only (DB)??
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MJW
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

I don't think it makes that big of a difference, because there are well regarded machines such as the LM GS/3 and current Cremina, that use a stainless steel boiler.  The GS/3 portafilters are also now made from stainless steel.

The metal properties are very different, and people have made a big deal out of copper's high heat conductivity.  But the existence of these new designs (and probably some old designs as well) proves that a successful design can be made with either metal.
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cuznvin
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 1:43pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

MJW Said:

I don't think it makes that big of a difference, because there are well regarded machines such as the LM GS/3 and current Cremina, that use a stainless steel boiler.  The GS/3 portafilters are also now made from stainless steel.

The metal properties are very different, and people have made a big deal out of copper's high heat conductivity.  But the existence of these new designs (and probably some old designs as well) proves that a successful design can be made with either metal.

Posted December 21, 2012 link

I did read something somewhere that stainless can hold on to bacteria.. My guess is that is the reason La Spaziale used stainless for the steam boiler and not the brew boiler. The high temp in the steam boiler kills any bacteria..
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emradguy
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 4:02pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

The temp in the brew boiler is also sufficient to kill every known human pathogen.  In fact, it's considerably hotter than your automatic dishwasher, which only heats to about 135F.  I wouldn't lose another second of sleep over the bacteria "issue".  btw, to add to my credibility...I have a BA in cellular and molecular biology, with a minor in chemistry...and am an MD.

 
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cuznvin
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 4:23pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

emradguy Said:

The temp in the brew boiler is also sufficient to kill every known human pathogen.  In fact, it's considerably hotter than your automatic dishwasher, which only heats to about 135F.  I wouldn't lose another second of sleep over the bacteria "issue".  btw, to add to my credibility...I have a BA in cellular and molecular biology, with a minor in chemistry...and am an MD.

Posted December 21, 2012 link

Good to know!! So that theory is down the drain..LOL...  BTW.. Im an L.R.T.
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 4:33pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

emradguy Said:

The temp in the brew boiler is also sufficient to kill every known human pathogen.  In fact, it's considerably hotter than your automatic dishwasher, which only heats to about 135F.  I wouldn't lose another second of sleep over the bacteria "issue".  btw, to add to my credibility...I have a BA in cellular and molecular biology, with a minor in chemistry...and am an MD.

Posted December 21, 2012 link

Damn, and I used to like you.  :)

 
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cuznvin
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 4:51pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

The temp in the brew boiler is also sufficient to kill every known human pathogen.  In fact, it's considerably hotter than your automatic dishwasher, which only heats to about 135F.  I wouldn't lose another second of sleep over the bacteria "issue".  btw, to add to my credibility...I have a BA in cellular and molecular biology, with a minor in chemistry...and am an MD.[

I should have guessed you are a radiologist (emrad) ... I used to do MRI Applications..
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CraigA
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 5:12pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

cuznvin Said:

The temp in the brew boiler is also sufficient to kill every known human pathogen.  In fact, it's considerably hotter than your automatic dishwasher, which only heats to about 135F.

Yes, by a country mile!., here's a temp chart.

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CraigA: Managing the Brew Temperature of HX Espresso Machines  Home-Barista.jpg

 
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andys
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 6:27pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

emradguy Said:

The temp in the brew boiler is also sufficient to kill every known human pathogen

Posted December 21, 2012 link

Although brew boiler temperatures (195-203F) are sufficient to kill most vegetative bacterial cells, much higher temperatures are required to kill bacterial spores (which are like bacterial "seeds"). Temperatures around 250F for many minutes are required to kill the spores of Clostridium botulinum, the bacteria that causes deadly botulism.  

It would be virtually impossible to contract botulism from an espresso; nevertheless your statement above is flat out wrong.

 
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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
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Posted Fri Dec 21, 2012, 6:31pm
Subject: Re: Stainless vs Copper
 

CraigA Said:

here's a temp chart

Posted December 21, 2012 link

Craig, those numbers are saturated steam temperatures for a sealed steam boiler. They have no relevance at all for a brew boiler.

As I'm sure you know, brew boiler temps run ~200F +/- a few degrees.

 
-AndyS
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