I'm fortunate to have some seriously excellent coffee available around where I live and work. I'm making espresso at home for the convenience and joy of it. I do still visit my favorite places because I enjoy the people there as much as I enjoy the coffee. I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic though.
calblacksmith Said:
If you want hot water just pull some shots without coffee in the PF. The dilution rate of water on a small commercial or prosumer machine is pretty quick. I have a 2.5 l boiler, bigger than yours and a LOT bigger than the steam boiler on the BDB. When pulling water through the hot water wand, I can get about 10oz of water that is useable for something like tea, the first water comes out at boiling then quickly drops due to the influx of water into the boiler.
When I first complained about the the hot water wand being useless, I was told that if I do use it, do not remove more than 4 oz at a time because the boiler refills slowly and if the heating element is on, it can be damaged if the water level is low. I ended up buying a dedicated electronic tea kettle that's pretty awesome. I can get the exact water temperature I want very quickly. It's perfect for making a french press as well.
calblacksmith Said:
Most machines have preinfusion built into them. The BDB uses the pump being pulsed to do it while other machines such as those based on the E61 GH have a spring piston to perform the same function. Does your brew pressure gauge jump straight to 9 bar or does it take about 5 seconds to climb there? Yep, that is preinfusion.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:40am Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
The reference was to being able to buy the BDB local but buying a better machine would require sending off to an online vendor, just like crap coffee is for sale local but if I want good coffee, I need to put some effort into buying it.
For nearly unlimited hot water, use the HX circuit not the water wand. The wand is a "feature" found on commercial machines with boilers that hold multi gallons of hot water, not the 1.8l of water that your or the 2.5 l of water that my machine holds, It is OK to take a little water from it but just use the HX system and all is OK. BTW the BDB steam boiler is .95l or about half the size of yours, if you don't like the volume of hot water from your machine, you REALLY would not like what you get from the BDB.
From 1st line:
Features:
E61 Grouphead -
Yes you have pre infusion. You can augment the natural pre infusion of the E61 because you have a lever in your hand that you control the water flow with, you can pre infuse for an hour if you so choose to do so, not that this would result in good coffee but .... you do have the ability.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
scanfield Senior Member Joined: 21 Nov 2011 Posts: 172 Location: Texas Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: La Nuovo Era Cuadra Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:10pm Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
calblacksmith Said:
For nearly unlimited hot water, use the HX circuit not the water wand. The wand is a "feature" found on commercial machines with boilers that hold multi gallons of hot water, not the 1.8l of water that your or the 2.5 l of water that my machine holds, It is OK to take a little water from it but just use the HX system and all is OK. BTW the BDB steam boiler is .95l or about half the size of yours, if you don't like the volume of hot water from your machine, you REALLY would not like what you get from the BDB.
The hot water on the BDB comes from the 300 mL brew boiler, not the 950 mL steam boiler. I understand what you are saying though. I think no matter what machine I picked (I had a $1500 budget for machine and grinder), I would still have ended up buying a separate tea kettle.
FWIW, Mark Prince also recommends the BDB to people when they ask him what machine to get. I might be a babbling idiot, but few people have as much experience with as many different machines and coffees as Mark. It's a shame that he doesn't participate on his own site because I'd love to hear his take on a question like this.
cafeespresso Senior Member Joined: 16 May 2005 Posts: 106 Location: South Florida, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Pulser Grinder: Baratza Vario Roaster: FR 8+, SC/Turbo CO
Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 1:53pm Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
washburned Said:
I just got off the phone with them. The person I spoke with owned and prefered the Nuova in part because of the e-61 group head and then the ascetics. Both of which the Bezzera does not.
Its actually 930 once tax is figured in through direct buy, I have a friend with an account
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 2:46pm Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
If the BDB continues to trend in the positive direction and it does prove to have a reasonable life, then it will be a good machine. It is still too new for me to give it a thumbs up, however I have stopped giving it a do not buy recommendation, I am neither for or against it but buyers do deserve to know the full story so they can make an informed choice.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
sn_85 Senior Member Joined: 1 Dec 2011 Posts: 131 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill Andreja Premium Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 5:07pm Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
washburned Said:
I just got off the phone with them. The person I spoke with owned and prefered the Nuova in part because of the e-61 group head and then the ascetics. Both of which the Bezzera does not.
Both are subjective at best. You can make good espresso without an e61 group head. The e61 is not the be all, end all and the Bezzera is more than capable with it's heated group head of making a great cup. As well, just because the rep said the Nuova was better looking to him does not mean that that's how you should feel. I personally don't like the way the Nuova looks in part because of it's bulbous shape. I much prefer the clean straight lines of the Bezzera which might come into play if you don't have a lot of counter top space. The Bezzera is only 9.5" wide so it can fit into a lot of places a 14.5" wide Nuova can't.
washburned Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2012 Posts: 29 Location: napa Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra II Grinder: Baratza vario
Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 7:59pm Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
sn_85 Said:
Both are subjective at best. You can make good espresso without an e61 group head. The e61 is not the be all, end all and the Bezzera is more than capable with it's heated group head of making a great cup. As well, just because the rep said the Nuova was better looking to him does not mean that that's how you should feel. I personally don't like the way the Nuova looks in part because of it's bulbous shape. I much prefer the clean straight lines of the Bezzera which might come into play if you don't have a lot of counter top space. The Bezzera is only 9.5" wide so it can fit into a lot of places a 14.5" wide Nuova can't.
cafeespresso Senior Member Joined: 16 May 2005 Posts: 106 Location: South Florida, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Pulser Grinder: Baratza Vario Roaster: FR 8+, SC/Turbo CO
Posted Tue Dec 18, 2012, 6:27am Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
calblacksmith Said:
If the BDB continues to trend in the positive direction and it does prove to have a reasonable life, then it will be a good machine. It is still too new for me to give it a thumbs up, however I have stopped giving it a do not buy recommendation, I am neither for or against it but buyers do deserve to know the full story so they can make an informed choice.
However, it would be hard for him to do better at the $900 price point. Also, Breville has provided excellent customer service for this machine (hoping it stays the same for years to come).
I was on the fence on the BDB, and waited a year to get mine for the same reasons you described. I'm accustomed to working on my machine, replace my own parts, and have successfully descale my machine at least 5 times. Having a standard design with user replaceable parts is a big plus.
After 3 weeks, I'm very happy with mine and feel I made the right decision. But the pros and cons are there, and all things need to be considered
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,100 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Tue Dec 18, 2012, 8:38am Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
I am with Wayne, and for the same reasons. I no longer recommend people stay way from the BDB -- though I still urge people to avoid other Brevilles -- but I cannot recommend the BDB either.
cafeespresso Said:
After 3 weeks, I'm very happy with mine and feel I made the right decision. But the pros and cons are there, and all things need to be considered
My honeymoon phase lasted about 2 hours. I made so many bad espressos in the beginning that I had severe buyers regret for the first month or so. Then as I managed to get a decent shot once in a while, my happiness trended up. It probably peaked when I realized that I was routinely (ie 75% of the time) making coffee as good as the cafe in my neighborhood. Now I'm finding that my interest in coffee is waning a little because it's become a very mundane routine.
I'm wondering what everybody else does to maintain their interest in coffee? I ordered some big latte cups from Intelligentsia to play with some latte art and find myself thinking about getting into roasting. What other frontiers are their to explore?
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