Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
What make expensive espresso machines better?
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > What make...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 2 first page previous page
Author Messages
Frost
Senior Member
Frost
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,101
Location: Sierra
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Venus
Grinder: Lelit PL53
Roaster: Poppery I w/variac, MET, BT
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 9:29am
Subject: Re: What make expensive espresso machines better?
 

NobbyR Said:

Thermoblock doesn't necessarily mean unstable. QuickMill builds thermoblocks with surprising thermostability like the ones used for the Cassiopeia.

Posted December 13, 2012 link

A few more sentences on down I said:

"If the Gaggia had a 3.5oz thermoblock (sort of like an Hx loop....) it would solve this problem as well."

Thermoblocks do get a bad rap around here because you seldom see a good one.
If properly engineered, I think it is an ideal solution to espresso machine temperature stability.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
TonyVan
Senior Member


Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Pacific Northwest
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: GS/3, La Pavoni
Grinder: Macap M7K, Rocky
Drip: Kone
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 1:31pm
Subject: Re: What make expensive espresso machines better?
 

Without taking any issue with all the good advice provided so far, I'd add one thought.  Any of the machines discussed can produce a great shot of espresso, and as CoffeeNoobie points out, with an espresso machine it's a matter of consistency.  And ease, of course, and experience with the machine - but there will always be a way to temperature-surf or flush or otherwise time a shot so that it comes out well, once you master a machine's idiosyncrasies.  

That's not going to be true for the grinder, however. A grinder produces what a grinder produces: if it can't grind coffee beans consistently or finely enough for the task, there is no amount of technique, practice, cajoling or wizardry you can apply to make a coffee grinder do a better job than it's capable of doing.

So, of the famous four espresso requirements, you can coax a good shot from virtually any espresso machine, and a barista can learn to o a better job, and the coffee can be handled differently to optimize it (or worst case you can always change it out for something you like more), but the grinder is the one element that puts a hard limit on the best you'll be able to achieve.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 2:09pm
Subject: Re: What make expensive espresso machines better?
 

If a machine's sold with unpressurized baskets, I agree that's a good indicator.  I'll name some machines to look at.  Crossland CC1.  Ascaso Basic (?).  Also: Saeco Aroma (needs conversion to unpressurized).  Breville Infuser (?) -- also needs conversion.  And, I still think a low-end Delonghi with a boiler can do it, if you can find one where you are.  I believe the 330 is a thermoblock design.

It seems like regardless of thermoblock / boiler design, another key piece of temperature control is the sensor.  Most inexpensive sensors would require electronic calibration (that is, digital correction of readings) to account for manufacturing tolerances and sensor accuracy.

(I just saw the most recent post about grinders.  I agree, the grinder is more important than the machine for taste.)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Ceridan
Senior Member
Ceridan
Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Location: Prague
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Hario Slim
Posted Fri Dec 14, 2012, 3:16am
Subject: Re: What make expensive espresso machines better?
 

Thanks, especially for the specific coffee machines models tips. I think Breville is sold under brand Catler in Czechia (Europe?).

I'd like to be prepared for the post-Christmas sales and of course, people selling all their unwelcome presents, i.e. also coffee machines ( most of them will be capsule crap probably... :) ).
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,052
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Dec 14, 2012, 7:22am
Subject: Re: What make expensive espresso machines better?
 

Ceridan Said:

..., on the manufacturer's webpage it is stated that Rowenta Opio is a boiler machine ...

Posted December 13, 2012 link

Well, technically spoken a thermoblock is a boiler, and that's what the Opio has inside. But in the way this term is usually used here it means a "kettle" filled with water and warmed by an internal heating element.

Ceridan Said:

Thanks, especially for the specific coffee machines models tips. I think Breville is sold under brand Catler in Czechia (Europe?) ...

Posted December 14, 2012 link

I cannot speak for Czechia, but in Germany it's sold under the label Gastroback.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 2 of 2 first page previous page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > What make...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Rancilio Silvia - How to
Step by step guide for easy brewing and steaming with the Rancilio Silvia
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.386230945587)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+