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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 527
Location: High in the Rockies
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Thu Dec 6, 2012, 2:20pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

klund Said:

Blue Jaguar from Redbird Espresso. On the website it is described as "Full City".

Posted December 6, 2012 link

As Peter said, dark roasts fill more volume per gram than light ones.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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carz07
Senior Member
carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Thu Dec 6, 2012, 6:49pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

dagoat Said:

not necessarily, mate.  18.0g of dark roast will fill the basket.  18.0g of light roast will not, (and you will get pucks that stick).  it makes not a small difference, but a HUGE difference.

-peter

Posted December 6, 2012 link

thats what ive learned yesterday, while doing the 19g bubbadude recom, i was using the darker roast colombian and they dont stick and filled a good heap. after 3 testing i runned out of beans so i used the lighter roast brazilian still at 19g, and its kind of less than the darker roast. is this because of the oil contents? whats the logic behind this? and bubbadude the lighter roast brazilian at 19g stuck

 
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carz07
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carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Thu Dec 6, 2012, 6:54pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

klund Said:

For you, maybe! My 19.0g puck most definitely stuck this afternoon. How soon after the pull do you clean out the grouphead?

Posted December 6, 2012 link

after pulling the shot i walk to the table, saucer and stuff, lets say around 8-10 sec, when i go back to the machine and remove the pf, the puck is dry, this ive noticed with the dark roast. the lighter stuck even at 19g, perhaps the dose? perhaps the 19g light roast should be 20g?

 
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carz07
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carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Thu Dec 6, 2012, 6:58pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

BubbaDude Said:

As Peter said, dark roasts fill more volume per gram than light ones.

Posted December 6, 2012 link

what;s the logic here bubbadude? is it the oil content? perhaps its might relate to my experience, and since 19g dark roast fills more it dont stick but 19g lighter roast dont fill much is sticks, just like 18g sticks, so lighter roast should be 20g and it wont stick?

 
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scruzloose33
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Joined: 5 Dec 2012
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago, IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 7:19am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

I posted a similar comment over on the Baratza Vario owner's thread and they suggested I come over here for some feedback.  I am new to the semi-automatic world (previously had a super-automatic Jura) and the first week has been extremely frustrating.

My wife has not been thrilled with the learning curve of the new machine, so I am trying to get it dialed in as soon as possible before we she starts begging me to go back to the Jura.  My new setup is the Breville Dual Boiler with a Baratza Vario and I am really struggling to get my shots right.  I am trying to eliminate as many variables as possible (using 8-9 day old Intelligentsia beans, using an Espro tamper for consistent tamping pressure, weighing 18 grams of whole beans for each double shot in the Breville single wall double basket), but my shots are very inconsistent and I am really burning through good beans.  The other day I finally got the shot time to around 33 seconds (with 8 second preinfusion), but just two days later I am choking the machine with the same grind settings (one down on the macro and near the middle on the micro on the Vario).  Are there other variables that I should be messing with or does it sound like purely a matter of getting the grinder dialed in?  It is unfortunate (and time consuming) to throw away close to a pound of good beans trying to get to the perfect shot, but I keep telling myself that once I get everything dialed in the process will be much smoother and the espresso will be worth it.

Any other suggestions or am I just fighting the typical learning curve for a new wannabe barista?  I feel like I have read hundreds of pages of threads on CG and HB and watched enough videos to make this much easier, but there doesn't appear to be any way to bypass the "welcome weeks" of moving to the semi-automatic world.

Thanks,
Shane
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dyqik
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Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 7:46am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Shane, I think you might need to think about distribution in the basket and clumping of the grounds - google Weiss Distribution Technique.  I've found this is the biggest cause of inconsistency in my brewing now that I have weight based dosing down pat thanks to a 0.1g resolution scale and now my Esatto attachment (brewing with both a Gaggia Classic and Bezzera BZ07).

You'll find that poor distribution will lead to channelling and a fast shot.  If you don't realize that channelling is occurring, then you would adjust the grinder finer in response to the fast shot, accidentally get better distribution on the next shot and get a very slow shot, adjust coarser to compensate and so on.  If you have a naked portafilter, then this will reveal channelling, but if you don't it's hard to spot (which is why so many here swear by them...).

This is part of the learning curve!
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carz07
Senior Member
carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 7:59am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

scruzloose33 Said:

I posted a similar comment over on the Baratza Vario owner's thread and they suggested I come over here for some feedback.  I am new to the semi-automatic world (previously had a super-automatic Jura) and the first week has been extremely frustrating.

My wife has not been thrilled with the learning curve of the new machine, so I am trying to get it dialed in as soon as possible before we she starts begging me to go back to the Jura.  My new setup is the Breville Dual Boiler with a Baratza Vario and I am really struggling to get my shots right.  I am trying to eliminate as many variables as possible (using 8-9 day old Intelligentsia beans, using an Espro tamper for consistent tamping pressure, weighing 18 grams of whole beans for each double shot in the Breville single wall double basket), but my shots are very inconsistent and I am really burning through good beans.  The other day I finally got the shot time to around 33 seconds (with 8 second preinfusion), but just two days later I am choking the machine with the same grind settings (one down on the macro and near the middle on the micro on the Vario).  Are there other variables that I should be messing with or does it sound like purely a matter of getting the grinder dialed in?  It is unfortunate (and time consuming) to throw away close to a pound of good beans trying to get to the perfect shot, but I keep telling myself that once I get everything dialed in the process will be much smoother and the espresso will be worth it.

Any other suggestions or am I just fighting the typical learning curve for a new wannabe barista?  I feel like I have read hundreds of pages of threads on CG and HB and watched enough videos to make this much easier, but there doesn't appear to be any way to bypass the "welcome weeks" of moving to the semi-automatic world.

Thanks,
Shane

Posted December 7, 2012 link

i cant say anything to help you out for the time being but you are not alone thats for sure, im still in my learning here. totally same thing we are experiencing, i was smiling to myself reading this entry, saying this is so me hehehehhe. read some of my entries as you will be very familiar.

if you read more recent post, with me and bubbadude, he is kind enough to share.

finally someone here will find my questions worthy, so bubbadude your helping post to my questions can help others too.

just to share, so not to make your situation worst, when i started i was like throwing 500g in less than 3hours and no good shot.

i dont want to prolong this reply, i want to share this for starter, i just want to give you a shortcut to where i am now, im doing the bubbadude 19g for darker roast, this will help you in eliminating the sticking puck are you getting sticking puck? use dark roast and 19g. so we will not worry on this part.

next is what shot time, 5sec preinfusion and hits 32sec total, im still in this, with 19g x 2 is 38g, the end cup weight should be 38g. this leaves you with the grind setting.

be informed that grind setting do change but in the micro part as what they always say since the beans age and you run after it.

 
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michaelgo
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 900XL
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 9:14am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

Sticking puck is a very common issue and the cause is a vacuum that's created due to pressure changes in the group head.  Apparently, a little heavier dose will be enough to counteract that suction.  It's relatively easy to just loosen the PF, hit the single or double button for a second to drop the puck back into the basket.  I don't know if the BDB is constructed this same way, but there's a nice discussion and some diagrams  here

I used to have this problem very consistently with my BDB and Smartgrinder combo.  Since upgrading to the Vario, I haven't had a puck stick once.  Anyone interested in a slightly used Smartgrinder?

Michael
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scruzloose33
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Dec 2012
Posts: 10
Location: Chicago, IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 9:31am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

dyqik Said:

Shane, I think you might need to think about distribution in the basket and clumping of the grounds - google Weiss Distribution Technique.  I've found this is the biggest cause of inconsistency in my brewing now that I have weight based dosing down pat thanks to a 0.1g resolution scale and now my Esatto attachment (brewing with both a Gaggia Classic and Bezzera BZ07).

You'll find that poor distribution will lead to channelling and a fast shot.  If you don't realize that channelling is occurring, then you would adjust the grinder finer in response to the fast shot, accidentally get better distribution on the next shot and get a very slow shot, adjust coarser to compensate and so on.  If you have a naked portafilter, then this will reveal channelling, but if you don't it's hard to spot (which is why so many here swear by them...).

This is part of the learning curve!

Posted December 7, 2012 link

I have been reading and watching videos about WDT, Stockfleth, Schomer method, etc.  The Vario does a very good job not creating clumps as the grind is very fluffy and a little tap breaks up any clumps that do occur.  I then try WDT or N-S-E-W to distribute the grinds and feel things are very well distributed.  I think my impatience is just causing premature frustration and if I just work the grinder a little more I will start getting better results.  I appreciate all the feedback and it is great to hear that I am not the only one who has gone through these pains.

Shane
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carz07
Senior Member
carz07
Joined: 20 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Bodum Bistro,...
Drip: V60, Phin, Bonmac, Ame. Drip
Posted Fri Dec 7, 2012, 9:52am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread
 

michaelgo Said:

Sticking puck is a very common issue and the cause is a vacuum that's created due to pressure changes in the group head.  Apparently, a little heavier dose will be enough to counteract that suction.  It's relatively easy to just loosen the PF, hit the single or double button for a second to drop the puck back into the basket.  I don't know if the BDB is constructed this same way, but there's a nice discussion and some diagrams  here

I used to have this problem very consistently with my BDB and Smartgrinder combo.  Since upgrading to the Vario, I haven't had a puck stick once.  Anyone interested in a slightly used Smartgrinder?

Michael

Posted December 7, 2012 link

how many grams are you using for the double shot?

 
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