ethom Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2012 Posts: 63 Location: Pittsburgh Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia broken :o( Grinder: Vario Drip: Bosch
Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 5:29pm Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
Rats! I just got this machine. C'est la vie.
Here is a photo of the inside showing the boiler type. Can I assume it is the one with the brazed-in heater coil? Is there such a thing as a rebuilt unit?
I found a thread that suggested testing various parts with a multimeter. Is there any point in this case or should I just consider disassembling the boiler to have a look inside?
What is the white powder and where it is coming from exactly?
Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 6:04pm Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
You can unplug the heater element and put an ohm meter on the element & measure across to the boiler body. If there is any measurable resistance... The white powder is the insulating material from inside the heater element.
JGG Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 1,343 Location: Kentucky, US Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia Grinder: Mazzer Mini E (A), SJ; Rocky... Roaster: Hottop D w/PID; Thermometric...
Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 6:12pm Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
Your boiler is the newer style with the heating element integral with the boiler shell.
My suggestion would be to take things apart first so that you can get a visual on the heating coil before spending money on a replacement boiler. If you are seeing white powder, though, I agree with what others have said about a probably-fried heater.
The white stuff is some kind of mineral insulation. The insulation lies between the inner nichrome wire element and the outer metal shell of the heater coil. On a failed element, that metal shell will split. This releases the mineral insulation as well as providing an electrical path through the water from the nichrome wire to the brass boiler. The fault current passing through the boiler shell is what trips your GFCI.
Probably not needed to say here, but under the right conditions there is a potentially lethal shock awaiting someone who touches metal on your machine while it's running in this condition.
ethom Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2012 Posts: 63 Location: Pittsburgh Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia broken :o( Grinder: Vario Drip: Bosch
Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 6:39pm Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
Thanks for your great replies!
Frost, here is a photo of the measurement. From the other terminal the reading is “1” which I assume is infinite on this meter. The multimeter is pretty cheap and I’m not entirely sure that I’m using it correctly.
JGG, your safety comment is entirely needed. Thank you. Lethal – yikes.
Calblacksmith, your rebuild images and descriptions are going to be indispensible.
ethom Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2012 Posts: 63 Location: Pittsburgh Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia broken :o( Grinder: Vario Drip: Bosch
Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 7:12pm Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
Here is another issue I noticed. During the meltdown, I saw leaking from what I thought to be the wand connection. However, looking at the mark in the photo, it looks like the valve was or is leaking. Before the photo, I wiped it with my finger. I recall wiping this up once before, so it is newer. Does this portend another part possibly needed?
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,795 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 8:36pm Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
ah, glad to see you got so much great help with your boiler/heating element problem.
The steam wand valve I have repaired. There are a couple of o-rings inside. Take off the wand, pull the steam/water knob off from the front of the machine (it just pulls right off, and there's a small metal clip you don't want to lose), then loosen the nut holding the copper tubing coming into the valve, and last take off the nut holding the valve in place on the frame. Once you have the valve off, it's easiest to disassemble if you have a bench vise. Another option is to take this opportunity to upgrade the wand to the articulating type, that's even easier, although it costs you a little bit of money. There's a nice video on www.seattlecoffeegear.com
JGG Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 1,343 Location: Kentucky, US Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia Grinder: Mazzer Mini E (A), SJ; Rocky... Roaster: Hottop D w/PID; Thermometric...
Posted Thu Dec 6, 2012, 6:21am Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
ethom Said:
Frost, here is a photo of the measurement. From the other terminal the reading is “1” which I assume is infinite on this meter. The multimeter is pretty cheap and I’m not entirely sure that I’m using it correctly.
The multimeter seems to be reading ~180 ohms between the heater terminal and the brass boiler. If the meter's working then this is confirmation of a damaged heater. The resistance from either heater terminal to boiler ought to be enough megaOhms that the meter can't measure it.
Something that still bothers me, though, is the noise you reported. A bad heater doesn't explain that. If the noise happened while the brew switch was on, but not while the hot water switch was on, then the solenoid that operates the 3-way valve becomes the main suspect in my mind.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,761 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Dec 6, 2012, 6:40am Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
The white is the insulation from the heater, I posted this above but I will put it here too, notice the white that is exposed, this is the powder you are seeing in the water. This heater did work to heat the water but as in your case, it was not safe to operate.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
ethom Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2012 Posts: 63 Location: Pittsburgh Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar, Silvia broken :o( Grinder: Vario Drip: Bosch
Posted Thu Dec 6, 2012, 5:22pm Subject: Re: Silvia making awful noise
JGG, yes I found another post somewhere that associated the noise with a badly operating 3-way valve. But I do know that the noise started when I used the possibly ungrounded outlet, or it might have been the plug strip that couldn’t handle 1100 watts.
Once I went back to the outlet that I know to be grounded, the noise never returned even after an evening of back flushing, descaling, and rinse flushing. On the “bad” power, she was only brewing for 30 seconds or so total which seems to have been enough to fry the boiler. Could the pump motor have been making the noise due to a faulty power source? I couldn’t locate where inside it was coming from.
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