apinstein Senior Member Joined: 26 Nov 2012 Posts: 4 Location: Atlanta, GA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Nov 29, 2012, 6:34pm Subject: Re: Talk me out of the Breville 860xl as an entry-level setup
Quick update on my situation. First, thanks to all for the advice it's much appreciated.
I ended up buying the Breville 840XL for a few reasons:
I was convinced by the argument that it's a bad idea to couple the grinder & the machine, especially since it isn't too much more expensive to get separates.
There are a bunch of reviews by BDB owners that tried the 840XL and all say it actually produces nearly-indistingiushable shots from the BDB.
It has a 1600W heater so it should be able to deliver more heat, warm up faster, steam better, etc than other similar machines that range from 1100-1450W.
It has a thermocoil (single piece design) vs the old two-piece thermoblock, so it theoretically should be more reliable.
It has a PID and people are reporting good & stable temps throughout the pull.
I got it for $334, free shipping. List is $499. The prices on Amazon float up & down by $130 every few days -- I saw this insanely low price and it motivated me to move.
I ended up being lame and getting the Breville Smart Grinder, too. Had decent reviews (on Amazon), and the similarly-priced Baratza's were not recommended, and the next step up with the PortaHolder add-on is like $340 or something. I'm still open to good ideas on the grinder but opinions seem to be spread very thin!
Beyond that I am a noob at this and don't really want a super-steep learning curve at this time. Being a computer & open-source dude, what I'm really looking forward to is the ZPM Nocturn machine that lets you save shot profiles and share them. That should be really cool!
It is supposed to show up tomorrow, so I'll share what I find though frankly as a noob all I'll be able to say is that it tastes good or not ;)
BrookNYC Senior Member Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 36 Expertise: Just starting
Posted Fri Nov 30, 2012, 7:50am Subject: Re: Talk me out of the Breville 860xl as an entry-level setup
I am going to follow this thread. The 840XL is the same machine my husband just bought me also for $334. I do wonder if these newer models will hold up better than older models. So far store reviews have been good.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,678 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Nov 30, 2012, 8:18am Subject: Re: Talk me out of the Breville 860xl as an entry-level setup
Well, I hope you enjoy your purchase, really! We will be here to answer any questions you may have, just ask!
As a side note, Amazon reviews are not a good place to get information on the geekier side of any product or topic such as espresso. Most of the "reviewers" have VERY little to base their reviews on or quality gear to compare against. The reviews tend to be along the lines of.
I have had my XXXXXXX product for 3 days now and it is GREAT! The best EVER!!!!
This is not the "in depth" review like you will get from many here who have used other gear and have a reference point other than just buying my first XXXXX product. YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
biochemgawd Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 63 Location: Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: BDB Grinder: Vario
Posted Fri Nov 30, 2012, 9:50am Subject: Re: Talk me out of the Breville 860xl as an entry-level setup
For what it's worth, I have both the Vario and a smart grinder (and two BDBs). While the Vario is a MUCH better grinder as far as consistency, adjustability and grind "fluffiness", the Breville smart grinder is surprisingly good for $195. I have a new version of the smart grinder and it adjusts to an extremely fine setting (with the burrs touching).
If the Breville 840XL with PID and pre-infusion is anywhere near as good as the BDB, I might find myself recommending the 840XL/smartgrinder combo as starter equipment - not bad for $550. You would probably want to upgrade after 3-4 years anyway.
edited to include the cap I am currently enjoying courtesy of Smart Grinder and BDB.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,317 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:15pm Subject: Re: Talk me out of the Breville 860xl as an entry-level setup
I am betting you would not have the resale value from that breville set up so you would have to think of the 550$ and the machine disposable. Right now I could sell my used machine for what I paid for it and it would move fast and I could probably recover a lot of the grinder cost as well.
But I would be glad of more starter set ups to pick from. Right now there is a huge market opening there. I wish the Nocturn guys would get going.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,317 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Nov 30, 2012, 1:54pm Subject: Re: Talk me out of the Breville 860xl as an entry-level setup
Right now it is vaporware meaning that it is still in kickstart development and has been for almost a year. (vaporware is a software term meaning a game etc. that is still not real - hence vapor.) Click Here (zpmespresso.myshopify.com)
I think the idea is sound and the price point is right and they got a lot of funding really fast. However, production has been more of an issue than they thought. (they were supposed to ship in spring then summer then fall and now next year.....)
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
crazy4espresso Senior Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 104 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, La Pavoni... Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Posted Fri Nov 30, 2012, 2:10pm Subject: Re: Talk me out of the Breville 860xl as an entry-level setup
]
calblacksmith Said:
Your choice is clear but may not be easy for you.
You have defined the issue fairly clearly.
You can buy an all in one with poorer quality components on both sides or two, better quality components for the same money. For some people, they like the bling better than quality drinks. Decide what is more important to you then buy accordingly.
Please understand, ALL MACHINES REQUIRE HALF AN HOUR TO WARM UP REGARDLESS OF THE ADVERTISING PROPAGANDA 5 minutes just is not realistic for any machine, not just the boiler needs to warm up but the entire machine. That is just reality.
Only you can decide what you want to look at and what appeals to you but this is where your priority of values comes into play, better looks (to you) or better drinks.
Breville inspires only one primary reaction here (with the exception of the BDB which many people like but is $1K and it is not on the table for consideration here) .......
RUNNNNNN AAWWWWAAAAAYYYYYYYY!
I am still not sold on the quality of the BDB but it is the ONLY possible exception that I have to the above statement.
And as to being finickey, the better your grinder, the better and less fussy the espresso will be, to a point but at this price point, it makes a big difference.
All machines require 30 minutes to warm up? For the most part yes, but I guess you've never been in the presence of a Quick Mill Omre Monza. Small machine but heats up like a rocket!! From a dead cold start you will scald your fingers on the portafilter in 3 mins flat!! I didn't believe it at first either. I posted a thread on it a while back and to my knowledge only 1 member had a similar machine to mine, his being from the late 70's, mine from the early 80's(I think). I'm about to sell it tomorrow, funny I came across this post. Not sure how the more popular 60's models compare but this thing is something else! Click Here (i155.photobucket.com)
Posted Fri Nov 30, 2012, 2:18pm Subject: Re: Talk me out of the Breville 860xl as an entry-level setup
It's not 30 minutes to get hot, it's 30 minutes to warm up and stabilize, with all parts reaching their long term, stable, idling temperatures. You can only get consistent shots during an operating session if all the parts have approached thermal equilibrium before you start. Some parts will be hot long before the rest of the machine has stabilized.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
![biochemgawd: SG.BDB.jpg](javascript:ImagePopup("/images/59469/SG.BDB.jpg", 675, 555, "biochemgawd: SG.BDB.jpg");)
= No New Posts since last visit 