Windrat Senior Member Joined: 10 Nov 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Edmonton Ab Can Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Sat Nov 13, 2010, 7:59pm Subject: Re: Lelit PL41TEM w/ PID - any info?
I recieved my machine yesterday and have had some sucess. I am intrigued that the default setting for the PID temperature is 95 c or 203 f the temperature drops from 95 into the mid 80s on a two once shot. with the boiler mounted above the brew head fresh water entering the boiler during the shot woudl be reflected in brew temp quickly. reading about he Silva PId temp it seems they are much higher in the 104c 220 f range.
Am I right in thinking that the 95 c is an optimum group brewhead temperarture for the average of the shot and not necessarily a good boiler temperature to produce the optimum brew head temp? I have noticed that finished lattes are a bit cooler than we prefer even with heated porto filter cups and optimal temperature milk.
Using hot/warm water in the tank seems to aleviate the temp drop during the shot a bit too .. I was using water from my water cooler to start with before I woke up .
Seems funny to me that manufacturers do not use a boiler with a divider that separates fresh water entering from the group head. Cold water could enter the back rear of the boiler without changing the output flow temperature thoughout the shot because it would pull hot water off the top of the boiler first.
Posted Sun Nov 14, 2010, 8:14am Subject: Re: Lelit PL41TEM w/ PID - any info?
You will want to stop putting hot water in the reservoir - that can damage your pump.
I'm not familiar with the LeLit boiler, but a Gaggia boiler, as an example, has a stand pipe inside - so even though the group head is directly under the boiler, it is the water at the top of the boiler that feeds to the group. I would bet your boiler has something similar.
The Lelit owners can give you specific temps and routines - but I will give you a seat of the pants guess that 102-105C would be a better range to try.
adamreed31 Senior Member Joined: 28 Oct 2010 Posts: 29 Location: Dallas, Tx Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Lelit PL41TEM (PID) Grinder: Anfim Best Drip: Bodum French Press Roaster: Dunn Bros Addison TX
Posted Sun Nov 14, 2010, 10:03am Subject: Re: Lelit PL41TEM w/ PID - any info?
My experience thus far has been favorable using the factory recommended 95 degree celcius pid setting. I do however, like the idea of using room temp distilled water versus a refrigerated temp to not be such a drastic shift from cool to hot from resevoir to boiler. Have not closely watched the pid temp when pulling a double shot, but my guess is that the temp will drop about 12 degrees by the time the shot is pulled. Have yet to notice any inaeqate temp issues such as a cool shot. A cool latte seems unlikely if the steamed milk is brought up to the proper temp before combining...especially considering there is much more milk in a latte than espresso....just my opinion however. I do like to let the machine heat up before use of course, and I also like to run a 'blank shot' through the grouphead and portafilter to ensure these items are up to temp as well. Overall, I continue to be impressed the machine, especailly for the money. Will try to increase the pid temp just to compare but I have yet to have an over or underextracted shot with the 95 degree setting.
Will be interesting to hear more feedback from others as people begin to take delivery of them.
h3yn0w Senior Member Joined: 28 Oct 2010 Posts: 158 Location: Canada
Posted Sun Nov 14, 2010, 1:44pm Subject: Re: Lelit PL41TEM w/ PID - any info?
Do you have a fast read food thermometer? You can use the "styrofoam cup method" to measure what you are getting at the group. That might be a good way to dial in your PID. On average you'd want 93-94 C/199-201F there.
95 is pretty close to what you'd want at the group, so be sure to let the machine warm up well. Then again with the boiler mounted directly above the group on the Lelit, perhaps there isn't much of a temp drop. This seems to be more of a concern on the Silvia, which is probably why PID's get dialed in at much higher temps on those machines.
Windrat Senior Member Joined: 10 Nov 2010 Posts: 8 Location: Edmonton Ab Can Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Mon Nov 15, 2010, 8:12am Subject: Re: Lelit PL41TEM w/ PID - any info?
I have been using warm water so not worried about pump damage a few shots that I pulled with the refrigerated water in the tank were dismal but it seems to be ok with room temp water
I am now using 96c as my pid setting and getting some pretty nice shots and one near god shot this morning semi sweet. My first shot always sucks i guess this is common.
My pucks are not touching the screen and show a bit wet but the shots are tasty should I be slowly increasing the dose and increasing the grind size to get a higher level in the porta filter? After tamping at 30lbs ( I use a Click Mat) I am about 8 mm below the top of the portfilter starting from a distribution level with the top.
Does anyone have have detailed instructions for the pid unit which seems to use the same face plate as the Quickmills I stubbled on a OFF display setting once that is not mentined in the manual so I am inclined to think there is more programing ability in the two face plate buttons than documented even with the pid it over shoots quite a bit and does not seem to be learning? I hate waiting between..
? To make two quick lattes I am thinking it is better to steam one pull two doubles then steam the second.
adamreed31 Senior Member Joined: 28 Oct 2010 Posts: 29 Location: Dallas, Tx Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Lelit PL41TEM (PID) Grinder: Anfim Best Drip: Bodum French Press Roaster: Dunn Bros Addison TX
Posted Tue Nov 16, 2010, 8:53pm Subject: Re: Lelit PL41TEM w/ PID - any info?
Just a quick FYI- I have started another thread entitled 'Lelit PL41TEM- Calibration feedback' so owners and others can share their experiences dedicated to the subject...thought this may be helpful as the new machine starts to trickle into new owners' homes. I can see this thread going all over the place real quick:0) Thanks. AB
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