Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Thoughts on new machine options
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Thoughts on new...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 3 last page next page
Author Messages
kschueleraugsburg
Senior Member
kschueleraugsburg
Joined: 1 Sep 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 3:22pm
Subject: Thoughts on new machine options
 

I'm in the process of buying a new machine for home use. The previous machine was a Vibiemme Domobar Super, single boiler and vibration pump. Matched with a Mazzer Mini, this was a pretty good combination.

Now I'm in looking for my next machine (no longer own the Vibiemme, don't ask).

Presently there are three options, and I would appreciate any and all comments from individuals on this forum.

  1. Vibiemme Domobar Double-Boiler with rotary pump, tank or direct plumbing.
  2. Rocket R58, also Double-Boiler with rotary pump, tank or direct plumbing.
  3. Nuova Simonelli Appia, single group, rotary pump, direct plumbing only.

If I had my way, I would buy an Aurelia two group, and build a new house around it... ;-)

In reality, I need to watch a budget, want a practical machine for low use, something that I will enjoy using (I'm certified barista, just for the fun of it), I love technical stuff (being an engineer myself). The machine is always a great conversation piece when guests are over, and I enjoy fixing Americanos, Lattes, Cappucini and Espressi when entertaining. Personally, I drink only straight double-espressos, maybe a little bit longer pulls compared to the strict 1oz. rule.

Any thoughts? Much appreciated!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 847
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 3:46pm
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

At the risk of being accused of being a DB snob, from those three i would go with the Rocket. If you need to watch the funds Chris has a Duetto 2 in the buyers remorse section or $2100.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 656
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 9:22pm
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

I never thought I'd hear the words "Nuova Simonelli Appia" and "budget" mentioned in the same post. :)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,734
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 7:06am
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

I don't think any of them would be a poor choice, it really comes down to what you can get the machines for, your budget and which you like the looks of the best.

Congrats on putting plumb in high on your list, you will REALLY enjoy the machine a lot more not worrying about or even thinking about filling a water tank or emptying the drip tray.

In my personal use of my equipment, I have a few volumetric dosed machines and I will only go back to a semi automatic machine kicking and leaving claw marks in the concrete, there is really that much difference in ease of use. I offer this up just as something for you to think about when looking at new machines, it really is a nice feature to have.

At this price point, look at all machines both HX and DB, see which features you like more and which machine you like the looks of the best. There is no difference in the cup but methods of operation do differ.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
kschueleraugsburg
Senior Member
kschueleraugsburg
Joined: 1 Sep 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 7:26am
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

Markarian Said:

I never thought I'd hear the words "Nuova Simonelli Appia" and "budget" mentioned in the same post. :)

Posted November 27, 2012 link

Which proves that everything is relative... ;-)

But honestly, I do realize that the Appia is the highest priced on the list, and I'm not spending that money lightly. On the other hand, something I don't want to happen is: buy a machine, and then finding out I made a wrong choice and a bit more research, and possibly a few $$ more could have avoided that shortfall.

On the direct plumbing: yes, I would love to have that option, BUT: what concerns me somewhat that with an Appia I must have a direct water line close by, where the other machines at least offer the option of using the tank.

In your experiene, how long can a water line be for a machine? In my kitchen, I might have to route the line and it could be 10 ft. in the one location, or even 25 ft. in the other location? I always thought that length of water line does not make much difference (I once had a refrigerator connected over a 30ft. plastic water line - but maybe that is different).

Feeling drawn to a tank/direct plumb hybrid at the moment.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JPF
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jun 2010
Posts: 223
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivaldi, Pre-millenium...
Grinder: Dosered SJ, Resurrected...
Vac Pot: Yama Siphon
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: Behmor, Poppery I
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 7:37am
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

The Appia is the only "commercial duty" machine on your list, and the only HX, so it's definitely a different animal, but if you really would like a two group, then maybe that's your answer.  It's also the most expensive machine of the three.  You may or may not like the clearance between the group and the drip tray on the Appia.  It's extra large, designed so you can pull shots directly into tall cups for lattes-to-go.

JF

 
Living the caffeinated life.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
__________
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 898
Location: .
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Machine now fixed ;o)
Grinder: None
Vac Pot: None
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 9:30am
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

kschueleraugsburg Said:

In your experiene, how long can a water line be for a machine? In my kitchen, I might have to route the line and it could be 10 ft. in the one location, or even 25 ft. in the other location? I always thought that length of water line does not make much difference (I once had a refrigerator connected over a 30ft. plastic water line - but maybe that is different).

Posted November 28, 2012 link

Can only tell you my own experience.  Plumbed in with 15mm copper pipe running about 4 metres from the previous take-off point (dishwasher).

Routed through a pressure limiter dialled to 4 bar, then ~ 3 metres of 15mm copper into a sequence of: non-return valve: inline cutoff valve: brita inline filter, then flexible pipe to machine.  Gauge on the pressure limiter says 4 bar, so does the gauge on the machine.  Ok, neither of them are the most accurate devices around, but indicates to me there's no noticeable difference in the pressure and definitely there isn't any with the flow.

I think in the USA you normally use 3/8" bore pipework rather than metric 15mm or 1/2" ? I'd have thought that would be fine, but not sure about going very small. With a rotary pump you do have to make sure the flow is sufficient not to starve the pump of sufficient water.  I'm certain that somewhere on the web you'll find pressure drop/flow tables for different diameter pipes.

As has been said earlier, you will not regret doing it.  Plumb out too if at all possible.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,734
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:13am
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

My machine is on about 18 feet of 1/4" plastic line by the time it makes all the twists and zigzags to thread through the cabs. It has been run this way for about 4 years with no problems. It may take a few seconds longer to fill the boiler than it might if larger line had been used but the machine has suffered no ill effects that I can tell.

I drain into a 4 gallon water jug from the drip tray, this was the easiest way to do it for me, it would have been a long and likely impossible to maintain proper drain slope run if I had tried to go back to the sink.

We live a good 1000 feet above the pump at the water distrobution station and we had to sign a waiver that we accept the low water pressure because of that. Our pressure is about 30 psi at the front of the house where the water line enters via 3/4" pipe. It then flows through a rather useless pressure regulator set to 45 psi because of local building codes and into the house in 3/4" copper pipe. Under the sink I have a particle and a carbon filter then into a point of use water softener and from there out to the refer and the espresso machine.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:05am
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

I would kill for an Appia.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
kschueleraugsburg
Senior Member
kschueleraugsburg
Joined: 1 Sep 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:06am
Subject: Re: Thoughts on new machine options
 

calblacksmith Said:

I drain into a 4 gallon water jug from the drip tray, this was the easiest way to do it for me, it would have been a long and likely impossible to maintain proper drain slope run if I had tried to go back to the sink.

Posted November 28, 2012 link

How long (time) can you go until the 4 gal. jug is filled up? I agree this sounds like a doable alternative. The return line drain was always a concern for me. A kitchen at home isn't designed to purpose as a cafe counter would be (now, if I had my way ...), and routing a decent supply and drain line isn't that simple.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 3 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Thoughts on new...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Home Espresso Machines
Watch videos with Gail & Kat, Rocket, Jura Capresso, Saeco, Rancilio, Quick Mill, Nespresso
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.43183016777)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+