Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:57am Subject: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
For some reason I couldn't find an answer in the search so I'll ask.
For a 15g ridgeless VST basket would a standard 58mm tamper work well or do I need to get the 58.35 it's sized at? I know the 58 will "work" but if I won't see the complete benefit because of the size I would rather wait and get the set.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,655 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:04pm Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
Well..... A lot of things I don't get so... fussy about. .35mm is not very much and from a personal point of view, I would not worry about it. There is more slop in my daily tamper than that and I have good results, at least good enough that I am not looking to "upgrade" my tamper. Well as I have a presspoint that I use it would be a bit more involved but still...
Give it a try, it costs nothing to use what you have and if you do not get a doughnut extraction or channeling I do not know what a slightly larger tamper would do for you. YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
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jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:27pm Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
Burd Said:
For some reason I couldn't find an answer in the search so I'll ask.
For a 15g ridgeless VST basket would a standard 58mm tamper work well or do I need to get the 58.35 it's sized at? I know the 58 will "work" but if I won't see the complete benefit because of the size I would rather wait and get the set.
I used a standard 58 with my VST for a while. I don't think it is going to cause any pernicious baddies in your puck. It will leave the edges a little more messy but not a big deal. I like my RB 53.5 just dandy by the way.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
It depends on many factors, including your coffee and your technique. But I believe it is quite difficult to tell the difference between shots prepared with a 58.0 vs 58.4mm.
When I've measured paired shots to compare the results directly, I've found the extraction yield to be about 0.5% higher with the 58.4 - for example, 19.5% vs 19.0%.
This is with my technique and my machinery. YMMV.
My taste buds are marginal in discerning that degree of difference. Still, if one wants the best, most even extraction possible, it's likely that the 58.4 will help. But if you can't get the tamper right away I still think you should try the basket.
disclosure: VST beta tester, no financial interest in the company
hamish5178 Senior Member Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Posts: 10 Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Dec 1, 2012, 8:50am Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
andys Said:
When I've measured paired shots to compare the results directly, I've found the extraction yield to be about 0.5% higher with the 58.4 - for example, 19.5% vs 19.0%.
I am seriously skeptical of this. What sort of testing did you do to come to this conclusion?
Burd,
I've used VST baskets at home and at work extensively. I bought the Cafelat VST tamper some time ago and after several months gave it away. I much prefer a convex tamper with a little more wiggle room. The precision fit tamper resulted in a little less coffee sticking to the basket walls, but the fit had so little give that it really disrupted my routine. The slightest error when entering/exiting the basket would mess up the puck. YMMV, possibly not a large concern in a low volume situation, but honestly tamper size (within reason) is probably last on the list of things that will effect your shots.
I understand your skepticism. I could not believe it myself at the time.
As Frank suggested, it was comparing paired shots, measuring TDS with a VST refractometer, and thereby calculating extraction yield.
Again, this was with my equipment and my technique. YMMV.
If someone is planning to use VST baskets exclusively, I would recommend a 58.3 or 58.4 tamper. I doubt humans can reliably taste the difference between that and a 58.0, but you might as well give yourself the best setup possible.
OTOH, if you switch baskets brands regularly and only want to buy only one tamper, the 58.0 will work OK.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,014 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 7:00am Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
I was rather amazed by what all my baskets and tampers measured when I got myself some calipers to measure them with.
My first 58mm tamper measures 57.5mm, Stock NS triple basket 58.94mm Stock NS double basket 58.81mm Stock NS single basket 58.13 HQ triple ridgeless 58.82mm and 58.62 HQ triple 58.85 HQ 14g. 58.78 VST 18g. 58.7
All measurement except the stock single would do fine with a 58.35mm tamper and actually I could go bigger with a custom made tamper. Even with my tiny 57.5mm tamper I get fine results from the VST basket. I want to pick up some more VST baskets before I order a new tamper, if they are less then 58.7mm then I will just get a stock 58.35 tamper otherwise I will get a custom tamper from Pullman that measures a bit larger. The HQ baskets from espresso parts are my go to baskets, they are great for up dosed triples that I like yet allow a nice range of dosing without issues on my machine. I do like my 18g VST but it likes 18g +/-1g so ultimately I need more range of sizes to fit my routine.
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