calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 7,312 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 6:48am Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
Best price for value? The big problem with the stock Silvia is its cheap bimetallic thermostats. In the late 80's you were able to get SDBUs with 300 ml boilers and capillary thermostats for maybe $100 more than the Silvia in the US and a similar price to the Silvia in Europe. In the early 90s, you were able get a SBDU with an electronic temperature controller. Not sure of the price when new but I would guess $240 more than the Silvia. ($50 for the temperature controller + $10 for a better boiler) X 4 (for profit). Given the improved performance from replacing the bimetallic thermostats, I would say "best price for value" didn't belong to the Silvia.
I guess your answer is the reason I prefaced my comment by WARNING, PERSONAL OPINION FOLLOWS There is no right or wrong with personal opinions yet it seems that I am being sought to change my PERSONAL OPINION. YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 1,117 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:44pm Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
I really do like my CC1, excellent shots, and love the fast recovery after pulling a shot vs other sbdu machines and especially the fairly quick switching from steam to shot thanks to the thermoblock (no long waits, no boiler cool down like others etc). Think the Silvano is the only one that beats it there as a sb as it has a separate pump for steaming. PID makes all the difference, big difference in taste vs trying to play all the time with temp surfing, and more consistent. Personally I would go with a Gaggia Classic w/ PID over the Silvia.
Gig103 Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2012 Posts: 217 Location: Arizona Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: French press!
Posted Wed Nov 21, 2012, 3:59pm Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
I like Oscar also, he has grown on me. I like what I am getting in the cup and the powerful steam. I like the no burn shell and they did come in silver and off white as well as red. I wanted the best espresso machine I could get on the cheap and Oscar was it for me. I am not sorry I didn't get a shiny one as my first machine. I think I would be more intimidated and scared to touch it much less toss it in the trunk for family vacations like I do Oscar. (being used makes it less stress if he gets a scratch on him) His price reflects people liking the Stainless for the kitchen and I for one am glad I could get a low volume commercial machine for under $500. I could not have gotten another low volume commercial machine for the same money. And I will keep him around in that function if I ever do get a shiny one. He is pretty damn handy for catering events.
A true benchmark machine, this machine made Rancilio a lot of money since it was introduced in 1998 - it has become the standard against which all other consumer, single boiler machines are measured against. Currently in its 3rd revision.
Wow, that means that Rancilio has been making it for 14 years. They've been revising it once every 4.6... years, which is a bit more than what other appliance manufacturers do.
I guess in some ways, the Silvia is kind of like the Model T of the espresso world. The Model T was made between 1908 to 1927, nearly 20 years. The only problem was, the model T got cheaper. I can't think of any other car on the market that was built for that long, but there must have been a reason why.
I still love the looks of the Silvia, but you are right in that it is really due for a massive revision when there are machines like the CC1 and the Lelit PID controlled machines on the market.
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
"Revision" is the proper term. Very little has been done to improve the espresso production. The brew thermostat's temperature was lowered which could actually be seen as decreasing the quality. An adjustable pressure relief valve was added, but no gauge to make use of it. Other than some cosmetics, it's pretty much the same as it was when I bought mine in 2000.
The fact that it is priced as high as it is has a lot of experienced users recommending the Gaggia's to folks for their first machine, and then jumping past the Silvia to an HX machine or one of the newer hybrid dual-boilers.
I guess in some ways, the Silvia is kind of like the Model T of the espresso world. The Model T was made between 1908 to 1927, nearly 20 years... I can't think of any other car on the market that was built for that long.
The VW bug was in production for over 24 years when I bought one in 1969 and went well past that.
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 129 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Thu Nov 22, 2012, 9:37pm Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
And i believe that same VW bug is still made today in Mexico. Only difference between the bug and the silvia is price. The bug is an inexpensive car, but was a true work horse. The silvia is in the same work horse category but is very high priced. Imagine paying the price of a new honda civic but your getting an old bug.Rancilio has been riding this gravy train for 12 years. I can see them sitting at the board table. Don't change anything, dont add a $20 PID, make it cheaper. Lets ride this wave until coffeegeeks pulls this old news off the site.
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