NCPaul Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 9 Location: Asheville, NC Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: None yet Grinder: Kitchen Aide Retro Vac Pot: Nope Drip: I'm all French Press Roaster: Nope
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 8:21pm Subject: New Le'Lit PL041 vs. Used Isomac Venus
Hey Folks, Need some advice: I'm in the market for my first semi-automatic. I can get a brand new Lelit PL041 with PL53 grinder (for $600) or I can get lightly used Isomac Venus and the same (new) Lelit 053 grinder for about $650 (maybe a bit more). I like the styling and heft of the Venus better - the toggle switches are really nice and it seems like a more robust machine.
So - here is my main question: I've read that the Rancilio Silvia can be really finicky and takes quite a bit of effort to get dialed while the Lelit Pl041 is more forgiving. Where does the Isomac Venus fall in this spectrum? It shouldn't have the temperature issues of the Sylvia since the brew head is mounted to the boiler like the Lelit but it does have a bigger boiler (both an advantage and disadvantage). Would you expect the Venus to be more or less user-friendly than the Lelit?
As far as usage goes - I'm probably mostly Americanos during the week and Latte's and Cappuccino's on weekends. Never more than 2 drinks at a time and probably just 2-4 per day max.
The fact that the Venus is larger is probably a disadvantage since my wife is already balking at the loss of counterspace but I don't think it is a big different (10.25" wide vs. 8.5" wide). But it might look a tad bigger but I don't think this should play an issue.
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 9:22pm Subject: Re: New Le'Lit PL041 vs. Used Isomac Venus
NCPaul Said:
Hey Folks, Need some advice: I'm in the market for my first semi-automatic. I can get a brand new Lelit PL041 with PL53 grinder (for $600) or I can get lightly used Isomac Venus and the same (new) Lelit 053 grinder for about $650 (maybe a bit more). I like the styling and heft of the Venus better - the toggle switches are really nice and it seems like a more robust machine.
The espresso from each machine, once dialed in, won't be very different. Some things are different though.
Advantages for the Isomac: The OPV on the Venus is adjustable, the portafilter is 58mm (you can experiment with different baskets and tampers are easy to find), the machine is 10 lb heavier, the boiler is larger, and is a 1400 watt machine. 1st Line sells this machine new for almost twice the price of the PL041 - probably something to consider with regard to build quality there.
Advantages for the Lelit: A brand new PL041 has a warranty in case something goes wrong, if bought from 1st Line the site mentions the OPV is pre-adjusted to proper pressure, and it is more compact.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:28pm Subject: Re: New Le'Lit PL041 vs. Used Isomac Venus
I don't know anything about the 'used' state of your Venus, but in terms of build quality the Venus is a far more solid design. Just the plumbing alone; where Le'lit has plastic tubes with multiple compression fittings at full brew pressure and temp where the Venus is all boiler internal stand pipe to machine bored holes in the group head to the 3 way and shower screen. Add the larger boiler, this will provide a more stable brew temp and reliable machine. OTOH, if the Venus is already a basket case.....
.....With both you will need to work out the magic of obtaining consistent 200F brew temps to the coffee with a thermostat that has much wider swings. Some 'temp surf' some use a PID, I use a thermometer on the boiler.
NCPaul Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 9 Location: Asheville, NC Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: None yet Grinder: Kitchen Aide Retro Vac Pot: Nope Drip: I'm all French Press Roaster: Nope
Posted Tue Nov 20, 2012, 8:35pm Subject: Re: New Le'Lit PL041 vs. Used Isomac Venus
Thanks for the input folks. Sounds like the Venus is the way to go IF, and only if, the used one really is in good condition.
I continue to read people writing about how the Silvia is 'finnicky' and 'unforgiving' - does anyone have an opinion about whether the Venus is more forgiving or the same as the Silvia?
Posted Wed Nov 21, 2012, 1:49pm Subject: Re: New Le'Lit PL041 vs. Used Isomac Venus
I've never had a chance to use my Venus along side a Silvia, so I can't compare them. Before I got the Venus I used a Gaggia Espresso for 5+ years. (still have it downstairs...) Between these 2 there is simply no comparison on which I would rather use and what for me makes a much better and more consistent shot.
Really though, for machines and specifically the espresso quality, it comes down to the ability to deliver 200F water consistently to the puck at around 9 bar. There are other issues like water distribution at the shower head, pressure ramp, flow, etc. But if you can manage to get your machine to consistently deliver 200F 9 bar shot after shot, you are in the park. Most machine issues with espresso quality come down to failure to deliver on the basics.
Posted Wed Nov 21, 2012, 6:48pm Subject: Re: New Le'Lit PL041 vs. Used Isomac Venus
NCPaul Said:
I continue to read people writing about how the Silvia is 'finnicky' and 'unforgiving' - does anyone have an opinion about whether the Venus is more forgiving or the same as the Silvia?
i can't comment on this- I only had a Venus and loved it BUT when I was thinking of adding a PID, I found kits for the Silvia and not for the Venus (which I heard was doable but didn't feel like DIY).
I really like the look of the Isomac Venus too. I ended up with a too good to be true deal on a selection of espresso machines and picked the Quick Mill Silvano (the Venus was not one of my options) - my choice for the Silvano was certainly influenced by the look of the machine and the visual similarity with the Venus makes me wonder if the Italian manufacturers Isomac and Quick Mill share any history.
(Click for larger image)
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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