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Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Need Help:: NS...  
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AMubaslat
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Posts: 20
Location: The World
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Nuovo Simonelli - La Musica
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Instantineo
Drip: Bosch
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:29am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

did you watch the video link I provided?

Posted November 7, 2012 link

Yes i did. And while watching it, i found some other video (for the same lady) comparing the Musica with the Giotto (from Rocket).

While doing my investigations, I learnt that the Musica's Vibratory Pump has a special insulation that shall reduce the noise.

I'm getting more and more inclined towards the Musica...
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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 658
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 5:25am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

We definitely need some more Simonelli love on this forum. The Musica is an amazing machine, very much like their professional Appia Single Group, but with some extra features. If it were me choosing, I would definitely lean toward the Musica, though I've seen the Rockets in person and they are really nice.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,036
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:03pm
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

I think you would not go wrong with either.  But I would lean towards the one you can get serviced locally.  And I have an NS and I am pleased with it's build quality.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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AMubaslat
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Posts: 20
Location: The World
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Nuovo Simonelli - La Musica
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Instantineo
Drip: Bosch
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 2:42am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

I am in negotiation with the local distributor of NS, and believe he will be giving an interesting quote.

However, last night I was reading about the HX-driven machines need for cool flushing to adjust the brewing temp. It was kind of let down for me. I find it quite annoying to have to cool flush prior to pulling my shot. This implies that lot of water will be lost, and I'll have to empty the drip-tray more and more often.

I am presuming the Double Boiler machines require no flushing, and that it'll be ready to go anytime no matter how long it was sitting idle. Am I right here?

For the fellows using HX machines, are you annoyed by having to cool flush before pulling your espresso shot? Or with time, this becomes a habit and you even forget that you do it.
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,047
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 5:26am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

Flushing isn't really cumbersome, and you only need to do it when you left the machine idling for more than five minutes, but not when you pull several consecutive shots, for example. It really becomes second nature after a while. It also gives you the opportunity to toy with different brewing temperatures without having to wait for you DB to reach thermal equlibrium after changing boiler settings. Besides, DB machines may require flushing as well, at least with an E61 brew group, because it tends to get too cool.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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floydo
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Seattle
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Pid Silvia, La Pavoni, Alex...
Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 8:50am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

AMubaslat Said:

I am in negotiation with the local distributor of NS, and believe he will be giving an interesting quote.

However, last night I was reading about the HX-driven machines need for cool flushing to adjust the brewing temp. It was kind of let down for me. I find it quite annoying to have to cool flush prior to pulling my shot. This implies that lot of water will be lost, and I'll have to empty the drip-tray more and more often.

I am presuming the Double Boiler machines require no flushing, and that it'll be ready to go anytime no matter how long it was sitting idle. Am I right here?

For the fellows using HX machines, are you annoyed by having to cool flush before pulling your espresso shot? Or with time, this becomes a habit and you even forget that you do it.

Posted November 9, 2012 link


The drawback of HX machines is use of lots of water (flushing) to bring the temps back to the 201F range.  Read about the machines and this becomes apparent.  DB E61 machines require a flush, but it is about an Oz or 1 shot.  The head is heated by brew temp water vs steam tank water.  So refilling is less often.  DBs with a PID are closer to plug and play, but HX can pull the same quality shot with some learning......
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,047
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:02am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

floydo Said:

The drawback of HX machines is use of lots of water (flushing) to bring the temps back to the 201F range.  Read about the machines and this becomes apparent.  DB E61 machines require a flush, but it is about an Oz or 1 shot.  The head is heated by brew temp water vs steam tank water ...

Posted November 9, 2012 link

Those numbers are about right, maybe a bit optimistic on the DB side.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 864
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:06am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

Every machine requires flushing. HX machines to flush the superheated water from the HX tube, DB machines to make sure the group head is up to temperature and on both to purge grounds and oils from the screen. Depending on how frequently you're making a shot, flushes can be very minimal - on the order of 40-60cc of water. If you flush into your cups to preheat them, the water's not wasted.

If my NS Ellimatic HX has been idle for 15 minutes or more, it's about a 170cc cooling flush, which I use to preheat the cup(s) and make sure the basket and pf are at temp. Under 5 minutes of idle time, a 2 second flush to clear the screen is all that's needed.
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acasabia
Senior Member
acasabia
Joined: 17 Oct 2008
Posts: 620
Location: Westchester, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus iv-p,...
Grinder: Quamar M80e, Hario slim
Vac Pot: Yama Vacpot, Aeropress,
Drip: french press
Roaster: hot-air popper.
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:07am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

I considered both of these machines when I made my purchase a few weeks ago. The NS is a nice machine, but the cost seems inflated based on its commercial rating, and fancy lights, the Rocket is a beauty, and if a rotary pump is important to you Id go that route.

Other options you should consider
  • The Expobar Brewtus iv, I bought this machine after looking at all of the machines you listed and I am about to, I think it has the most bang for its cost, dual boiler, e61, PID, availible rotary pump. Definitely well suited for 10-15 shots a day, and I like the semi-manual operation. I paired it with a quamar m80e grinder, the 4pack steam tips from rocket, and bottomless PF (rocket) that just really make the machine great. It is much cheaper than the other options here, and with 2 1.7L copper boilers, this macine is a beast.
  • The Alexia Duetto II/III, a great dual boiler, looks amazing, has a pretty big following. version 3 has just come out, give it a look over at clive. I didnt buy this purely on price and its PF sits lower preventing certain cups from easily being placed under it (an insane thing to worry about).


Best of luck,

Remember to buy what you can use, not what you can afford!

 
Anthony C

Currently pulling:
Path Coffee Roasters (PortChester, NY) Feather in cap espresso.

Cold Brewing:
Gimme! (ithaca, NY) Moca Java

http://coffeeandneuroscience.wordpress.com/
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,047
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:25am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

acasabia Said:

... The NS is a nice machine, but the cost seems inflated based on its commercial rating, and fancy lights, ...

Posted November 9, 2012 link

I somewhat agree as far as the price is concerned, but the R58 is equally expensive and I think that local support is of priceless value in the long run.

GVDub Said:

... If you flush into your cups to preheat them, the water's not wasted ...

Posted November 9, 2012 link

That's what I do, too.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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